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Islam and Spiritualism (31 Jan 2015 NewAgeIslam.Com)




TOTAL COMMENTS:-   48


  • Attention: To All Muslim Readers – “New Age Islam” forum.

     

    The “Ex--Tablighi” struck back as follows:

     

    So let us agree the Quran is not truly a guide book. It astrays many.

     

    How sick can a man get?

     

    So problem is not with me, but nature of the Quran.

     

    This “Ex-Tablighi,” is a truly man with a “Sparrow Brain.

     

    Posting of image of Muhammad Ali Clay.

     

    Such an example was given to extract a final confession from “Ex-Tablighi.” After all, deep down inside his heart, he remains a Muslim. Though, one can now safely conclude that he is nothing but a perfect “Hypocrite, as described in the Quran.

     

    That’s all folks, I remain

     

    Very truly yours,

     

    Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia


    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 2/5/2015 9:21:08 PM



  • Lodhia 
    When you will grow up. Your posting of image of mohammed Ali Clay to show the greatness of name Mohammedans.
    Would you like to mention Mohammed Ali Jinnah and Allama Mohammed Iqbal. Former was behind bloodiest partion of the world. Latter was founding father of Pakistan. Do you know how many Hindus and Muslims were killed, looted, raped in the partition?
    Mohmed Ali Jinnah carries the names of two personalities of Islam one prophet and another first child convert. Why these two names could not turn him into believer and stop from killing?
    Do you know. Do you  know Tablighis have mohammeds, Ahmed's, Alis, osama , Abu bakr and uthmam etc. And you hate them.
    Sultan Shahin has no prefix or suffix to his name yet better more than many Mohammeds.
    It showed how childish laughable comment you posted. Keep posting such childish comments.
    You must be awarded for being childish commentator.
    I forgot to menrion observer who is Naser ahmed but you hate him to the core.

    By rational mohammed yunus - 2/5/2015 5:33:32 AM



  • Dear Rational Younus

    I like your question how to give up Islam without antagonizing your family.

    Your family gets worried if they fear that you are going to apostate because they think by giving up Islam you will free yourself from all social, moral and ethical responsibilities that are intrinsic to the faith of Islam. For example your wife may fear that you will have no hesitation to abandon her or stop giving her any funds for running the house and even force her into prostitution in an extreme case. I know you may not do this, but this is what she may fear at the back of her mind. Your daughters will think you may stop spending any money for them; your needy relatives may think you will disown them, your parents and well wishers will think that you will contract all vices that are anathema to good moral behavior. Now do not quote me ahadith to show that it is itself a repository of a vast array of vices. But you ought to know that except for those relating to the Prophet's religious chore, the rest are era specific and wrought with forgery, fabrication, embellishments, inaccuracies and people's imagery and aspirations - they wanted to see in the Prophet what they expected of him - their ideal. If you have not understood this, I will earnestly request you to read my following articles on the theme to understand the inherent weaknesses of hadith corpus. There was no hadith as as such at the time of the Prophet when the Qur'an was completed and perfected. It evolved in the next 2-3 centuries. You have to use the Qur'an to verify the truth of a hadiht and not the other way round. So do not quote me any hadith to make any point please: 

    Ref: Hadith is not a divine scripture of Islam – a la Qur’an.

    :
      

    By muhammad yunus - 2/5/2015 1:20:01 AM



  • I fully agree with your comment based on selective verse. The Quran doesn't permit Muslims to insult other religion because the Quran doesn't want people insult Allah in return. 
    The Quran carries both kind of verses. You can't deny it.
    Ahadith are equally important to Muslims.
    How you will succeed in separating ahadith from the Quran when ahadith are to majority of Muslim scholar including so called moderate sufis key to understand the Quran.
    So let us agree the Quran is not truly a guide book. It astrays many. Why would God all knowing will write such a book and call it guide.
    Allah in the Quran puts conditions to make it guidance l. It is belief in unseens.  If one has doubt in unseen like judgment day and believes in rebirth how it could be inclusive.
    Based on these beliefs in unseen the Quran can't be inclusive.
    Other verses are open insults to disbelieves. 
    It is you who is adding times specific attribute.
    Where the Quran says only selected hostile disbelieves will be punished. Can you provide any word that suggests it.
    To majority of Muslim scholars inclusing sufis the Quran is universal. So problem is not with me buth nature of the Quran which keep Muslims divided.
    You didn't reply how can one Islam if he is not happy with it without risking his life and family? Is it too difficult question?

    By rational mohammed yunus - 2/5/2015 12:44:24 AM



  • Lodhia
    You addressed Muslim readers. Are not there non-muslims readers? Are not they worth mentioning?
    Full hearted Muslims are in breaking news.

    By rational mohammed yunus - 2/5/2015 12:19:40 AM



  • Oh ! Mr Lodhia
    How childish you are? Would you agree he had weaknesses too which are evident from Islamic literature?
    There were many other influential man on the earth. If he was one of them how he becomes cause of universe.
    Being influential is not guarantee of greatness. Have not you seen Mr Modi is one influential people?
    It may not sound good to your ears. You may not like putting Mr Modi when we are talking about the prophet.
    I hope your bubble of happiness is no more.

    By rational mohammed yunus - 2/5/2015 12:14:44 AM



  • Attention: All Muslims Readers – “New Age Islam” forum.

     

    The confession of a half-hearted Muslim and “Ex-Tablighi.

     

    Hz Mohammed was a very influential man of the world. He had both strength and weakness.

     

    I know very well good verses and good  hadith.

     

    See you are not able to delete Mohammed from my name.

     

    Now, you all can see, how a little high-handed way can make one extract an honest confession. The world famous boxer once remarked, “Float Like A Butterfly. Sting Like A Bee.” It did not take but just one comment to get a straight answer.

     

     

    Guess what! Don’t be surprised if the “Ex-Tablighi” will revolt against his own confession and start to get abusive. Trust me, there will be another knock-out punch coming from my end. Enough is enough.

     

    Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia    


    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 2/4/2015 11:56:51 PM



  • Attention: All Muslims Readers – “New Age Islam” forum.

     

    The confession of a half-hearted Muslim and “Ex-Tablighi.

     

    Hz Mohammed was a very influential man of the world. He had both strength and weakness.

     

    I know very well good verses and good hadith.

     

    See you are not able to delete Mohammed from my name.

     

    Now, you all can see, how a little high-handed way can make one extract an honest confession. The world famous boxer once remarked, “Float Like A Butterfly. Sting Like A Bee.” It did not take but just one comment to get a straight answer.

     

     

    Guess what! Don’t be surprised if the “Ex-Tablighi” will revolt against his own confession and start to get abusive. Trust me, there will be another knock-out punch coming from my end. Enough is enough.

     

    Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia    


    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 2/4/2015 11:55:38 PM



  • Lodhia
    You are saying contradictory things. I have said clearly that I am not open apaotate because you know what your brother will so to me if I declare my apostasy.
    Even if I am an ex-tabligji or half hearted Muslim how is that I insult religions and prophet.
    You call truth insult like uoie mentor Mohammed yunus and many others.
    Had been there a freedom in Islam to  leave islam perhaps you would have not seen me.
    It may not be punishable in the Quran but it is in Islam. Your brothers keep reminding world by their action and demand of punishment for apostasy and blasphemy.
    1400 years passed and Muslims not happy with Islam are in life threatening risk by peacdul believers.
    Tablighis is not an insulting word to Mr observer. So your calling him tablighi has no effect on him as it is not calling Mr ex-tablighi.
    Sufism is not better than tablighi Islam. You stand sectarian. It show a problem in Islam not solution. 
    You are a jehadi and your words against terrorists are hollow. They pare greater Muslims by putting words in actions and you are demanding it another name. You want to punish who criticize/insult Islam yet you have the tongue to say hollow words.
    You are supporting killers in Paris.
    Terrorists are killing and you are engaged in word war to support anti Blasphemy or apostasy laws. 
    Hz Mohammed wanted to kill apostate who happened to be one of scribes of the Quran. How is life was spared is recorded in Islamic history?
    Can you deny it? 
    Be honest Mr Lodhia.

    By rational mohammed yunus - 2/4/2015 11:17:54 PM



  • Every person should have right to insult religions because one religion insults other religion. 
    If religious books can call other worst creature, adharmi malechh etc why not they be ceiticized/insulted?
    Punishing one and rewarding another is injustice.
    Religions give reasons man to hate others.

    By rational mohammed yunus - 2/4/2015 10:48:42 PM



  • Lodhia
    You seems to be confused. First decide whether he is perfect logic or twisted logic?

    By rational mohammed yunus - 2/4/2015 10:41:15 PM



  • Lodhia
    My children carry Mohammed as prefixed. My daughter's name is after a wife of the prophet.
    Your thinking is very shallow. Being named Mohammed, Ahmed or Mehmood is cultural because in my case. 
    I know many Mohammed, Ahmed's and mehmoods are criminals. It has nothing to do with one's life. 
    Do you know idi ameen. He carried Mohammed as prefix.
    Jesus was not Mohammed Jesus. Soloman was not sulaiman ahmed. 
    So come out from shallowness. Hz Mohammed was a very influential man of the world. He had both strength and weakness.
    If the Quran sings praise of him ahadith beside praises say a lot negative.
    Ahadith is record made by Muslims not by his enemies. Muslim organise khatm e bukhari sharif as khatm e Quran Sharif. 
    You are hypocrite and hypocrite in Islam is a worst creature.
    I know very well good verses and good  hadith. This is not my concern. My concern is why Islam produced so many fabrictors/liars. Why would they add derogatory and insulting words/stories?
    Why Muslims react violently on quotation but not against real culprits. 
    Those fabricators of lies are founding fathers of Islam.
    See you are not able to delete Mohammed from my name. I removed it from your name.
    Will Mohammed in my name help in some way?

    By rational mohammed yunus - 2/4/2015 10:37:22 PM



  • Attention: All Muslims Readers – “New Age Islam” forum.

     

    As-Salaam Alay-Kum

     

    Every single day, one “Ex-Tablighi,” is on the loose and keeps busy by insulting the religion for which he still partly believes in a half-hearted manner.

     

    Let’s say, we have a mentally deranged “Ex-Tablighi,” in our midst. The man has been given full liberty to insult Islam, and the moderate cannot even put an end to this show of continuous assault on our religion and Prophet of Islam. Tragic part is that, a few commentators feels obligated to respond to him, thinking that they will learn from him.

     

    Note the line, “it is no derogatory word for us.” This sentence itself proves that the man is a Muslim, yet he brags to everyone that he dislike Islam as a religion.

     

    Then he goes on to state, “no outsider is insulting Islam.” Hence, we can translate this to be another confirmation of the “Ex-Tablighi,” holding on to his name “Mohammed.

     

    No doubt, the “Ex-Tablighi,” is solely dedicated to smash and derail any debate on this forum. Just like so many “Fools and Morons, who are out to prove that Muslims are plain stupid; this half-hearted Muslim, is one living proof of what went wrong with the minds of Muslims in these days and times.

     

    Well, the bottom line is that, he is taught to “Ignore Intelligence, during his days with the Tablighi Jamaat. Unfortunately, it is his immaturity which is revolting against his own religion of Islam. Think about one thing,  if this “Ex-Tablighi” is so disgusted with Islam, then why does he not get himself engaged with so many “Anti-Islamic” forums out in the cyber space. He has to hang on to mentally terrorize us every single day.

     

    Imagine, Sultan Shahin, the moderator cannot even do anything about it! Little wonder that the problem with the Islamic world is not the ordinary Muslims. It is the Muslims who are in the leadership position or are running the Islamic forums. Stay neutral and let the loons and goons reign supreme.

     

    Thanks again for reading, I remain

     

    Very respectfully yours,

     

    Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia


    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 2/4/2015 10:33:13 PM



  • Dear Rational Muhammad Yunus,

    The Qur'an does not permit the Muslims to insult others religion. It declares:

    "Don’t insult those whom they invoke besides God, lest they ignorantly insult God in enmity. Thus We have made their action seem pleasing to every community; then their return is to their Lord, and He will tell them what they had been doing” (6:108).

    The Qur'an further declares: 

    “We have revealed to you (O Muhammad) this divine Writ (kitab) setting forth the truth, confirming (whatever) remains of the divine writ (sent earlier), and determining what is true in it. Therefore, judge between them by what God has revealed, and do not follow their whims after what has come to you of truth. For each of you We have made a (different) code (shir‘ah), and an open way (of action) (minhaj). If God so pleased, He would have made you (all) into one community. Therefore vie (with each other) in goodness (so that) He may test you by what He has given you. (Remember, you) all will (eventually) return to God, and He will tell you in what you differed” (5:48).

    “O People! We have created you as male and female, and made you into races and communities* for you to get to know each other. The noblest among you near God are those of you who are the most heedful (atqakum). Indeed God is All-Knowing and Informed” (49:13).

    Kindly read my following article that gives you a broad outline of its message and kindly do not try to mix the Qur'an with the Hadith as there is too much divergence and contradiction in the latter, which is historically derived and not a word of God:


    Hadith is not a divine scripture of Islam – a la Qur’an

    By muhammad yunus - 2/4/2015 10:24:04 PM



  • Dear Rational Muhammad Yunus

    I do not blame you. The Qur'an says: yudillo bihi kathiran wa yahdihi bihi kathira: it guides many and leads many straying.



    By muhammad yunus - 2/4/2015 10:12:50 PM



  • Lodhia
    You are lunatic because you believ in a verse of the Quran which says mushriks are physically and spiritually unclean. So when you talk about inclusiveness of the Quran you are hypocrite.



    By rational mohammed yunus - 2/4/2015 9:54:51 PM



  • Lodhia
    What about insult hurled by your holy books on unbelievers.
    Regarding Mr observer I want to remind you, he is a Muslim. Being tablighis is not insulting. It is not derogatory word for us.
    Why do you forget bloody history of Islam. Others too have. But it is unique with a religion called blessing for the world?
    Lodhia I enjoy when you exalt me with noble words.
    If these words are bad I return them to you.
    Keep care. Muslim will keep applying Quranic and hadith verses.
    No outsider is insulting Islam. 

    By rational mohammed yunus - 2/4/2015 9:43:09 PM



  • Mr Mohammed yunus
    Did I insert these verses into the Quran? Why I should do so? It is there. 
    You often say that why I don't say goodbye to the Quran? I don't do that because I know what your inclusive peaceful muslims will do to me?
    I hope you will ask it again.
    If the Quran and hadith contain such  exclusive and hateful verses what one can do?
    I say nothing I simply quote from holy sources of Islam. If it is painful to you it is not my fault. Are these verses not in use?

    By rational mohammed yunus - 2/4/2015 9:33:26 PM



  • Dear pcs, I am trying to do that for quite some time, though find little time from daily routine. I would be glad if some one else could do that with greater consistency. It's an urgent task before Muslims, I believe. This will also give primacy to the most essential, foundational, constitutive, positive verses of Quran that constituted the Meccan revelations.
    By Sultan Shahin - 2/4/2015 12:48:33 PM



  • can somebody  organize the verse in its order of revelation ?

    Let us see whether the verses are contradictory or not

    Also it will help to understand if the revelation is for a particular period/tribe/nation etc

    If so we can all agree and stop debating

     


    By pcs - 2/4/2015 11:50:04 AM



  • Rational Muhammad Yunus:
    Copy: Sultan Shahin Sahab 

    You said the following in one of your recent comments (Feb. 3) under this thread: 

    "Your Quran call unbeilivers beasts. You want to polish the Quran but it will show its real hate to unbelievers."

    Are you on this site simply to malign the Qur'an. If if it is really all that bad, why don't you give up your faith, And if you have given up your faith, what are you doing on this site. If you are a hypocrite, this is what the Qur'an says about the hypocrites: 

    It refers to them as rijz (spiritually unclean) (9:95), hurls divine curse on them (9:68, 33:73), calls them liars (9:42, 9:107, 58:18, 63:1 and deviants (fasiqun) (9:96, 9:67) and describes them as the most despised among the Prophet’s followers for opposing God and His Messenger. It singles them out as the comrades of Satan (58:19/20) and relegates them to the lowest depths of the hellfire (4:145). 

    What are you really after? You want to convince the people that the Qur'an is a false book and the Prophet an Imposter. If that is your intention, you should be on an anti-Islamic website and not one that claims to be heralding a New Age for Islam. 



    By muhammad yunus - 2/4/2015 10:24:35 AM



  • Mr. Twisted Logic,

     

    No doubt, you can spend only so much time with the “Loonies.” It seems like you are once again, being “Ego Centric,as always, by trying to evade answering the questions. It is quite obvious that you do not have any answers.  Why shift the blame?

     

    Your “Buzdil, action can only make one come to the conclusion that you, Mr. Logic,  can also be classified as belonging in the category of “Certified Fools and Morons.You jump in to defend your beloved “Ex-Tablighi,” and then find one of your grand excuses to opt out of the forum. What a sore loser?

     

    Acting like “Forum Hoodlums, will get neither you nor “Ex-Tablighi” anywhere. Do you recall, how defiantly “Hats Off,” informed the readers not to read my comments? Of course, how can I forget “Tablighi,” the brilliant observer, who shuns everything to make his case.

     

    Let the readers of “New Age Islam,be aware that you are nothing but a “Three Dollar Bill. Phony as anyone can get. What gives you satisfaction to terrorize the Muslim minds and insult Islam? Did your parent taught you to engage in such an immoral behavior? Don’t you have better things to do in life, but to invade into a forum with your “Perverted Logic”?

     

    Finally, we Muslims can take all the criticism in the world. The fact is that we have been painfully accepting all the insults. What people like you do is to incite hatred and nothing else. Note that this particular topic is related to “Mother’s Milk,” and not “Cow’s Milk.”  Not only this, in your rebuttal you even accused Muslims of being engaged in the “Joy of Provocation.” Why not look at the mirror with your eye glasses and ponder into your own moral character? Enough said. If you have any dose of moral decency, then you will stay out of the forum consisting of the “Loonies.”

     

    Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia     


    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 2/4/2015 8:20:43 AM



  • Mr. Twisted Logic,

     

    No doubt, you can spend only so much time with the “Loonies.” It seems like you are once again, being “Ego Centric,as always, by trying to evade answering the questions. It is quite obvious that you do not have any answers.  Why shift the blame?

     

    Your “Buzdil, action can only make one come to the conclusion that you, Mr. Logic,  can also be classified as belonging in the category of “Certified Fools and Morons.You jump in to defend your beloved “Ex-Tablighi,” and then find one of your grand excuses to opt out of the forum. What a sore loser?

     

    Acting like “Forum Hoodlums, will get neither you nor “Ex-Tablighi” anywhere. Do you recall, how defiantly “Hats Off,” informed the readers not to read my comments? Of course, how can I forget “Tablighi,” the brilliant observer, who shuns everything to make his case.

     

    Let the readers of “New Age Islam,be aware that you are nothing but a “Three Dollar Bill. Phony as anyone can get. What gives you satisfaction to terrorize the Muslim minds and insult Islam? Did your parent taught you to engage in such an immoral behavior? Don’t you have better things to do in life, but to invade into a forum with your “Perverted Logic”?

     

    Finally, we Muslims can take all the criticism in the world. The fact is that we have been painfully accepting all the insults. What people like you do is to incite hatred and nothing else. Note that this particular topic is related to “Mother’s Milk,” and now “Cow’s Milk.”  Not only this, in your rebuttal you even accused Muslims of being engaged in the “Joy of Provocation.” Why not look at the mirror with your eye glasses and ponder into your own moral character? Enough said. If you have any dose of moral decency, then you will stay out of the forum consisting of the “Loonies.”

     

    Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia      


    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 2/4/2015 8:17:46 AM



  • In that case, Mr Selectivelyblindshakalakaboomboom, I cannot help you. Get yourself an opthalmologist. I can spend only so much time on loonies. 
    By secularlogic - 2/4/2015 2:15:58 AM



  • Mr. Perfect Logic,

     

    Here’s what I read:

     

    “In 1860, British rule codified Section 295A of the Indian Penal Code which punishes as hate speech insults or attempts to insult the religion or the religious beliefs of any class of citizen with deliberate and malicious intention to outrage their religious feelings. These laws are applied to all religions including Hinduism, Sikhism, Christianity and Islam.[33]

     

    Though, I have been wearing eye glasses, but I might have missed something, when I read, “or attempts to insult the religion.” I am not sure what it means, but please be kind enough to give further explanation on this subject matter.

     

    One more thing. I am expecting that you will make your usual rebuttal in your classic way of brushing aside everything pertaining to my comments. Simply put, try to avoid being “Mr. Know-It-All.

     

    Thanks & Regards,

     

    Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia  


    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 2/4/2015 1:10:00 AM



  • Dear Mr Shakalakaboomboom,

    Please read this and update your knowledge on where "blasphemy" invites death penalty. 

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blasphemy_law

    By secularlogic - 2/4/2015 12:56:45 AM



  • To: All Readers on the “New Age Islam” forum.

     

    An ex-Tablighi wrote as follows:

     

    “Hats off and me showed you mirror. After seeing your image you started finding fault with mirror.

     

    Your Quran call unbeilivers beasts. You want to polish the Quran but it will show its real hate to unbelievers.

     

    One should not wonder why Muslims, Quran and Islam are under attack all over the world.

     

    How long Lodhia you will lie?”

     

    Here’s another example of an avowed ex-Muslim engaged in “Joy of Provocation.” Why not? He has been given full liberty to do so by the moderator, Sultan Shahin Saheb. The man has a difficult time removing the name of “Mohammed,” yet he still goes out and insults the Prophet of Islam. Either he is well paid by “New Age Islam, or there must be a good reason as to why Sultan Saheb approves all of his perverted comments. Your guess is as good as mine!

     

    This “Pied Piper” thinks that many “Moderate Muslims, are in the business of lying. None dare to glance at the blog: http://www.wethemoderatemuslims.com  to learn a little about Islam. To my surprise, quite a handful have made it a religious practice to respond to the man’s idiocracy. What more can I say?

     

    My fellow Muslims, the only thing that I can conclude is that, the moderators of each Islamic forums, want such type of personalities to post their ugly comments so as to keep the comments flowing in. It doesn’t matter to a moderator, even if his own ambition to portray Islam as a “Moderate” religion is questioned by one single man who call himself “Mohammed,” and go all the way to malign Islam.

     

    Finally, the readers must honestly ask themselves, “Who promotes lies?” “Who encourages lies to flourish?” “Who is hell-bent to continue with lies?” All these questions will be hard to answer, as for long Muslims have been keeping respectable distance from the “Truth.

     

    Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia    


    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 2/3/2015 12:53:29 PM



  • Hello Fools & Morons,

     

    Perhaps, by listening to Christopher Hitches, some of you might get a hint about the level of stupidity you all are engaged in. Now, listen attentively to Bill Maher and Chris Hitchens as follows:

     

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HECI4QK_mXA

     

    Maher: “So did George Bush. That’s not facetious.”

     

    Hitchens: “That’s facetious is your audience which will clap upon anything is frivolous.

     

    I have been on Jon Stewart’s show. I have been on your show. I have seen you make five IQ jokes about George Bush per night. And there is no one that I know, who can’t do it. You know, what I think? This is now the joke, the stupid people laugh at. It’s a joke that any dumb person can laugh at. They think they can prove they are smarter than the President. Like the people who make booing and mooing in the audience.”

     

    No doubt, there are CERTIFIED FOOLS AND MORONS who have nothing better to do in life than to gleefully cheer at one another for making insulting remarks against Islam and its Prophet. One spits out an insult, only to be closely followed by another moron, who further elaborate different version of his own hate-filled message. Then they all take utter delight at their own remarks thinking that they have convinced so many out yonder of their “Pure Idiocracy.  

     

    Surprisingly, none of these bunch of fools and morons can “Stand Tall,to say or to write anything good thing about Islam. It will be wise for all of my fellow Muslims, to block their emails and do not even bother responding to these full-time jerks.

     

    Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia

     


    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 2/3/2015 12:34:25 PM



  • Mr. Secular Logic,

     

    You wrote:

     

    I argue that where Hindus live in a majority, they can legalise a ban on cow slaughter.

     

    My response:

     

    Yes, why not? One has to respect the wishes of the majority.

     

    You wrote:

     

    Just as Muslim countries have legalised killing people who insult the prophet.

     

    My response:

     

    This is a near perfect example of “Intellectual Bigotry. Can you name one Muslim country that legalized killing people who insult the Prophet? Never mind the thugs who are out of control. In other words, prove it to the readers as to which Islamic government has legalized it.

     

    You wrote:

     

    Wealth was counted in cows and dowry was paid in cows.

     

    My response:

     

    Yes, it still does and will continue till the doomsday. All you need to do, is to listen to Paresh Rawal. Never mind, God or Ishwar or Allah, as you do not believe in it.  

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ml_RiX7ilU

     

    You wrote:

     

    I do suspect though, that sometimes cows are slaughtered by this community for the joy of provocation and defiance rather than for the meat itself.

     

    My response:

     

    Are you implying that the “Joy of Provocation,” is only confined to the Muslims? What makes you think that the Hindus do not indulge in provocations? Let’s be honest for change.   

     

    Need I say more, Mr. Confused Logic ???

     

    Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia


    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 2/3/2015 12:25:03 PM



  • true. I think it is because Muslims are more visible, a larger demographic group and for reasons well known , are seen as something of historic enemies that they are referred too more often in heated debates than other beef eaters. It must be requested of the christians too. Or as some sort of compromise, imported beef be allowed. Killed in other countries, but not in India. So the eaters and worshippers both give a little way. I do suspect though, that sometimes cows are slaughtered by this community for the joy of provocation and defiance rather than for the meat itself.
    By secularlogic - 2/3/2015 3:41:02 AM



  • Dear secularlogic
    It is settled. I have presented my views and you you views. Mutual respect is the solution. 
    It should not be limited to Muslims. It should address Christians and other communities including Hindus who eat beef.

    By rational mohammed yunus - 2/3/2015 3:32:09 AM



  • Lodhia
    You might have read response of secularlogic.
    We are not fragile like you. If the prophet is exalted in the eye of God no word can bring him down from his station. I have just quoted what billion of muslims believe in and believe next to the Quran.
    Why Muslims are disturbed and go for killing for quoting from that source.

    By rational mohammed yunus - 2/3/2015 3:21:57 AM



  • Rational, 
    I was inclined to let the matter rest after my first attempt to moderate the discussion, but since our common friend Mr Lodhia has made it some sort of a dare, let me attempt to address the issues you raise.

    1. Venerating the cow but not caring for it. Try to look beyond the obvious. If you keep cows/buffaloes in an urban environment, you have to buy fodder, create space for the animal, and maintain it ( collecting its dung, etc). Often, it is easier to just let the animal forage around the garbage dumps to find their own food. Mind you, I am not endorsing this. I am saying that is how we come to find cattle straying around. Irresponsible ownership. But because a few cattle owners are irresponsible, it does not mean all Hindus are ill treating Milch animals on a regular basis. Indeed, I know places where cows are kept in AC sheds (the Jersey varieties) I know cows of the Gir breed who are looked after as if they are the family's children! If your concern is about ill treatment/neglect of cows while claiming to worship them, I am with you. Owners should be more responsible, and cattle neglect should also be treated as a punishable offence. However, the crimes of a few do not make a case for cow slaughter. 

    2. As you say, it is all a matter of faith. The cow became holy when she was a giver of many economic benefits. Wealth was counted in cows and dowry was paid in cows. She was of more value alive than dead. I don't know the economics of the dairy industry, but that may still hold true. In daily life of people, the cow and its economic importance is dwindling because for them, milk comes in pouches. The day may come when milk will be made in factories and the cow may become redundant. The symbolism connected to the cow lingers, however, just as the symbolism related to the shankh, chakra, trishul, lotus, pipal tree, etc etc. lingers, and Hindus have as much right to their beliefs in the irrational as Muslims have to their beliefs in the irrational. It is on this basis that I argue that where Hindus live in a majority, they can legalise a ban on cow slaughter. Just as Muslim countries have legalised killing people who insult the prophet. I dare say the punishment for killing cows may be much milder than what the Muslims do to a person accused of 'crime of belief'. Lets have parity here for sentiments. 

    As for whether it is God who has made all these rules, whether Hindu or Muslim, an intelligent mind will find the answer if he starts with the question of who made God in the first place? 

    By secularlogic - 2/3/2015 2:41:20 AM



  • Lodhia
    Being moderates means being hypocrites. You are one of them.
    You believe mushriks are unclean if not physically spiritually.
    What ever motive secularlogic had behind his support to me is his burden not mine.
    I can survive among  crocodiles called moderates without anybody's help.

    Hats off and me showed you mirror. After seeing your image you started finding fault with mirror.
    Your Quran call unbeilivers beasts. You want to polish the Quran but it will show its real hate to unbelievers.
    One should not wonder why Muslims, Quran and Islam are under attack all over the world. 
    How long Lodhia you will lie? 

    By rational mohammed yunus - 2/3/2015 2:06:14 AM



  • Kesav,

    I am a vegetarian so I have an aversion to all meat. However, I do not think it is right to expect the whole world to turn vegetarian. It is a matter of personal choice. My only request to the meat eaters is to avoid slaughtering the cow, not for reasons of science and logic, but out of respect for sentiments of the majority of the people in the country in which they reside. I do not expect Pakistan to impose a beef-ban, but I do hope Hindu sentiments can be respected at least in India. 

    Mr Lodhia, 
    Mr Rational's questions do not perturb me in the least, because I have grappled with the same questions myself and have reached the conclusion I presented in my address to Mr Kesav. 

    As for what the Vedas said - it is immaterial. What is material is what Hindus think today. A hundred years hence,they may think differently again. For Hinduism is not a religion that is bound by any book. It is malleable. But for now, Hindu sentiment must be respected in India just as Muslims expect their sentiments to be respected where they are in majority, minority or miniscularity.

    By secularlogic - 2/3/2015 2:03:52 AM



  • Dear kesav
    Thanks for a detailed response. With due respect to your sincere attachment to Krishna I disagree with you.
    There are millions of Muslims who will swear and with full sincerity believe their religion is final and only way to God. If God is the source of Islam and vedic religion it should not be contradictory. But I feel they are extremely opposite. They can't be from God or same God. 
    Not a single Muslim scholar of the Quran and hadith think or believe nearing eating a sin or an obstacle to the path of God. I can make assure you greatest sufis who were deviant in aome matters ate meat yet Hindus and Muslims bow their heads before their spirituality. I am simply baffled why few Hindus know only true path if it is what you tell us.
    I personaly don't think meat eating is an obstacle in the path to God.
    It depends on our sorounding environment. Billions of people on our globe living in different geographical conditions can't accept your suggested path to God.
    Your approach and of Muslims is equally narrow.
    Muslims claims there is only one way to God. You tell me your path is only way to multi. Christians claim Jesus is the only saviour.
    Pardon me for being straight you are telling all other people going to hell. Their lives are full of sins. I simply  can't agree.
    An Arab can't live a life a Hindu live in Indaiy. Similarly an Eskimo can't live a life suggested by you. 
    Can you convince even moderate Sufi scholars of NAI? They will respect your sentiments but will shrug their heads in disapproval.
    Cow and bull economy is over. It was perfect for India not for all countries. 
    Perhaps that day will never come when majority will be non meateater.
    I am forrced to think that not a single person will live in heaven or will achieve salvation.
    You can keep believing what you want to believe in but hard fact is, it is not practical for all people on the globe.
    People will continue to hold different religions. Whole world will never be Muslim no matter how Muslim s strive for it to happen.
    Same goes with all religions. There is no single path to God if there is something called God.
    It is man's creation. It is bound to be as diverse as people are.
    Political ambitions are driving people to make all people Muslims, Hindus or Christians.
    So I prefer to live an agnostic life beacaue no religion satisfies me. Even God is improbable to me. I draw this conclusion based on diversity of believers. 


    By rational mohammed yunus - 2/3/2015 1:51:40 AM



  • Dear kesav
    Thanks for a detailed response. With due respect to your sincere attachment to Krishna I disagree with you.
    There are millions of Muslims who will swear and with full sincerity believe their religion is final and only way to God. If God is the source of Islam and vedic religion it should not be contradictory. But I feel they are extremely opposite. They can't be from God or same God. 
    Not a single Muslim scholar of the Quran and hadith think or believe nearing eating a sin or an obstacle to the path of God. I can make assure you greatest sufis who were deviant in aome matters ate meat yet Hindus and Muslims bow their heads before their spirituality. I am simply baffled why few Hindus know only true path if it is what you tell us.
    I personaly don't think meat eating is an obstacle in the path to God.
    It depends on our sorounding environment. Billions of people on our globe living in different geographical conditions can't accept your suggested path to God.
    Your approach and of Muslims is equally narrow.
    Muslims claims there is only one way to God. You tell me your path is only way to multi. Christians claim Jesus is the only saviour.
    Pardon me for being straight you are telling all other people going to hell. Their lives are full of sins. I simply  can't agree.
    An Arab can't live a life a Hindu live in Indaiy. Similarly an Eskimo can't live a life suggested by you. 
    Can you convince even moderate Sufi scholars of NAI? They will respect your sentiments but will shrug their heads in disapproval.
    Cow and bull economy is over. It was perfect for India not for all countries. 
    Perhaps that day will never come when majority will be non meateater.
    I am forrced to think that not a single person will live in heaven or will achieve salvation.
    You can keep believing what you want to believe in but hard fact is, it is not practical for all people on the globe.
    People will continue to hold different religions. Whole world will never be Muslim no matter how Muslim s strive for it to happen.
    Same goes with all religions. There is no single path to God if there is something called God.
    It is man's creation. It is bound to be as diverse as people are.
    Political ambitions are driving people to make all people Muslims, Hindus or Christians.
    So I prefer to live an agnostic life beacaue no religion satisfies me. Even God is improbable to me. I draw this conclusion based on diversity of believers. 


    By rational mohammed yunus - 2/3/2015 1:44:38 AM



  • Dear Rational,Lodhia,Secularlogic:


    I can only repeat that slaughtering an animal for the satisfaction of the tongue is selfish,immoral and a merciless act.The goal of the human form of life is love of God.Only that can deliver us from this material existence.The role of the cow and the bull is particularly crucial because this combination helps us achieve the goal of human life.How can one possibly develop love of God by inflicting  the unspeakable brutal act of decapitating and consuming the flesh and blood of innocent animals?!


    Here is a true episode.A man took his child to the butcher shop to purchase chicken.When the butcher decapitated the chicken,it ran around in circles with blood spurting.The man laughed but the child turned his head away.I am simply appealing to arouse the sentiment of the child in you.That’s all.Mercy is the foundation on which true religion stands.If there is no mercy,it cannot be a true religion.You have to understand this point.I cannot make it any simpler.


    ‘The powerful eating the weak’, is applicable only to animals not humans.We are not made to eat flesh.If we were truly meateaters then we would jump on the animal,break its neck,suck the blood and tear the flesh.Instead we cook! 

     

    Lord Jesus Christ said ‘Thou shall not kill’, and there are prohibitions against flesh eating in the Old Testament.The Vedic literature clearly states that the cow and the bull should not be killed.In fact Bhagvat Gita enumerates the edible ingredients as leaf,flower,fruit and water.(patram,pushpam,phalam,toyam...).The Christians,Jews and Hindus deliberately violate their scriptural injunctions and therefore suffer the consequences.


    The first lesson of the Bhagvat Gita is,’We are not this body.We are eternal spirit soul’.Hindu,Muslim,Christian,Jew,Indian,American,black,white,brown,rich,poor are all bodily designations.We must come out of this mindset and realise that the body is not the ‘true self’.We must ‘see’ the soul in every living entity.This is called the ‘equal vision’ of the sage.


    The body is temporary.The body dies but the soul is eternal,part and parcel of the Supreme Soul and our relationship is only ‘bhakti’ or ‘ibadat’.This is called ‘dharma’ of the soul,Sanatan dharma or True Religion.As long as ‘religion’ is based on the false bodily designation,the ‘worldwide religious strife shall continue’.


    We cannot create God but we can create disturbance in society by making such fanciful speculation.I too can speculate-why can’t we grow younger?! why can’t the child give birth to the mother?! etc.The fact is we do not even have control over our own bodily functions.We run to the dentist when we get a toothache! We grow old,diseased and die. What kind of creator is that?! If you mean that God is a product of our imagination then you have to explain what is the source of consciousness? Certainly matter cannot generate consciousness.


    Killing of all life forms generate sinful reaction.This reaction is irrespective of ‘religious’ designation or if committed knowingly or unknowingly.It is impossible not to kill microorganisms or vegetables.Therefore Sri Krsna states, Simply surrender to Me,offer all your food and sinful reactions to Me.Let me take your sinful reaction and you eat the remnant, as My mercy (prasadam).

    The apparent contradictons in the scriptures is in the detail.It is similar to the difference between a pocket dictionary and the encyclopedia.In both the meaning of the word is the same but the encyclopedia provides more information.


    About five hundred years ago Lord Krsna,appeared in Nawadwip,West Bengal as Sri Chaitanya.At that time the district magistrate was Moulana Sirajuddin (Chand Kazi).Here is a brief presentation of their debate:


    Sri Chaitanya: You drink cow’s milk therefore the cow is your mother.And the bull produces grain for your maintenance,therefore he is your father.Since the bull and the cow are your father and mother how can you kill and eat them? What kind religious principle is this? On what strength are you so daring that you commit such sinful activities?


    Chand Kazi: As you have your scriptures called the Vedas and Puranas,we have our scripture,known as the holy Koran.According to the Koran,there are two ways of advancement- through increasing the propensity to enjoy and decreasing the propensity to enjoy.On the path of decreasing attachment,the killing of animals is prohibited.On the path of material activities,there is regulation for killing cows.If such killing is done under the guidance of scripture,there is no sin.In your Vedic scriptures there is an injunction for killing a cow.On the strength of this injuction,great sages performed sacrifices involving cow killing.


    Sri Chaitanya: The Vedas clearly enjoin that cows should not be killed.Therefore any Hindu,whoever he may be,does not indulge in cow killing.In the Vedas and Puranas there are injuctions declaring that if one can revive a living being,he can kill it.Therefore the great sages sometimes killed old animals,and by chanting Vedic hymns they again brought them to life.The killing and rejuvenation of such old and invalid animals was not  killing but an act of great benefit.Formerly there were powerful brahmanas who could make such experiments using Vedic hymns,but now because of Kali Yuga,brahmanas are not so powerful.Therefore the killing of cows and bulls for rejuvenation is forbidden.Since you Mohammedans cannot bring killed animals back to life,you are responsible for killing them.Therefore you are going to hell,there is no way for your deliverance.Cow killers are condemned to rot in hellish life for as many thousands of years as there are hairs on the body of the cow.There are many mistakes and illusions in your scriptures.Their compilers,not knowing the essence of knowledge,gave orders that were against reason and argument.


    Chand Kazi: After hearing the statements by Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu,the Kazi,his arguments stunned,could not put forward any more words.Thus after due consideration,the Kazi accepted defeat and spoke as follows.My dear Pandita what you have said is all true.Our scriptures have developed only recently,and they are certainly not logical and philosophical.I know that our scriptures are full of imagination and mistaken ideas,yet because I am a Mohammedan I accept them for the sake of my community,despite their insufficient support.The reasoning and arguments in the scriptures of the meat-eaters are not very sound,the Kazi concluded.


    (Sri Chaitanya Caritamrta,Adi Lila,Chap 17,text153-171,A.C.Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada).


    Some time later while on His way to Vrindavan Sri Chaitanya met several Mohammedan Pathan soldiers.Among them was a grave person who was wearing a black dress.People called him Pir.


    The Pathan Pir wanted to talk to Sri Chaitanya and establish impersonal Brahman on the basis of his own scripture,the Koran.When he established the impersonal Brahman conception of the Absolute Truth on the basis of the Koran,Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu refuted his argument.Whatever argument he put forward,Sri Chaitanya refuted them all.Finally the person became stunned and could not speak.


    Sri Chaitanya: The Koran has certainly established impersonalism but at the end it refutes that impersonalism and establishes the personal God.The Koran accepts the fact that ultimately there is only one God.He is full of opulence,and His bodily complexion is blackish.According to the Koran the Lord has a supreme blissful,transendental body.He is the Absolute Truth,the all pervading,omniscient and eternal being.He is the origin of everything.Creation,maintenance,and dissolution come from Him.He is the original shelter of all gross and subtle cosmic manifestations.The Lord is the Supreme Truth worshipable by everyone.He is the cause of all causes.By engaging in His devotional service,the living entity is relieved from material existence.No conditioned soul can get out of material bondage without serving the Supreme Personality of Godhead.Love at His lotus feet is the ultimate goal of life.The happiness of liberation,whereby one merges into the Lord’s existence cannot even be compared to a fragment of the transendental bliss obtained by service unto the Lord’s lotus feet.In the Koran there are descriptions of fruitive activities,speculative knowledge,mystic power and union with the Supreme,but ultimately everything is refuted as the Lord’s personal feature and His devotional service is established.The scholars of the Koran are not very advanced in knowledge.Although there are many methods prescribed,they do not know that the ultimate conclusion should be considered the most powerful.


    Pathan Pir: All that you have said is true.This has certainly been written in the Koran,but our scholars can neither understand nor accept it.Usually they describe the Lord’s impersonal aspect,but they hardly know that the Lord’s personal feature is worshipable.They are undoubtedly lacking this knowledge.Since You are the very same Supreme Personality of Godhead Himself,please be merciful upon me.I am fallen and unfit.I have studied the Mohammedan scripture very extensively,but from it I cannot conclusively decide what the ultimate goal of life is or how I can approach it.Now that I have seen you my tongue is chanting the Hare Krsna mahamantra.The false prestige I felt from being a learned scholar is now gone.Saying this the saintly Mohammedan fell at the lotus feet of Sri Chaitnaya Mahaprabhu and requested Him to speak of life’s ultimate goal and the process by which it could be obtained.


    Sri Chaitanya: Chant the holy name of Krsna! Chant the holy name of Krsna! As they all began to chant they were overwhelmed by estatic love.


    In this way Sri Chaitanya indirectly initiated the saintly Mohammedan by advising him to chant the holy name of Krsna.The Mohammedan’s name was changed to Ramdasa.There was another Pathan Muslim present whose name was Bijuli Khan.


    This is how Sri Chaitanya brought reform in Islam five hundred years ago.Unfortunately it has not been accepted by the Mohammedans yet.


    (Sri Caitanya Charitamrta,Madhya-Lila,Chap.18,texts 186-207, A.C.Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada).



    By Kesav - 2/3/2015 12:26:54 AM



  • Hello Secular Logic,

     

    WHERE’S THE BEEF? Do you recall how gleefully you came to the defense of the “Ex-Tablighi” whenever he insulted “Moderate Muslims. You never missed a chance, as you were always there to bail him out.

     

    Now that he has raised what you always claimed to be an “Intelligent,questions, you ought to at least be respectful enough to answer him in a straightforward manner. It seems like “Hats Off,” is missing in action, hence, if need be, let him join you, in trying to answer the one for whom you both acted like “Cheer Leaders.

     

    For your kind information, many Indian Muslims, for all I know try to avoid eating beef. Out of respect for all of my Hindu friends, I refrain from eating beef, whenever, I am in their company. Even in my home, we prefer chicken and goat over beef.   

     

    Knowing that you are a highly learned man, therefore, I would like to draw your attention to the following YouTube video link:

     

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTZyrItjwls

     

    “But the theory that in Vedic times there was no cow slaughter is historically inaccurate. Although cow was revered and treated as sacred, it was also offered as food to guests and persons of high status. The fact remains that ancient Hindu scriptures clearly permit the consumption of meat, even of cows. True scholars, and not modern frauds, know this. For example, Swami Vivekananda who is considered as a major force in the revival of Hinduism in modern India, admitted that ancient Hindus used to eat meat. He says, "You will be astonished if I tell you that, according to the old ceremonials, he is not a good Hindu who does not eat beef. On certain occasions he must sacrifice a bull and eat it." [The complete works of Swami Vivekananda, Volume 3, Pg 536]

    In the same volume on page 174 he says, "There was a time in this very India when, without eating beef, no Brahmin could remain a Brahmin;"

     

    Well then, Mr. Secular Logic, can you be kind to elaborate further about the Hindu religion for change. You know well that you have been at the forefront to criticize Islam whenever you can. At times, you were so mean spirited that you didn’t wanted to hear anything from the concerned Muslims. You were too damn arrogant, and now, let us see how humble can you get, to convincingly answer ex-Tablighi (your most favorite commentator) on the “New Age Islam, forum which seems to be his second home.

     

    Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia  


    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 2/3/2015 12:02:47 AM



  • Hindus have many sects as Muslims have but they have learned to live peacefully. Why it happened with Hindus but not with Muslims? Same with Christians. Their past was bloody but is not their present. Muslims past is bloody and present too. When they will learn to live peacefully?
    By rational mohammed yunus - 2/2/2015 8:43:18 AM



  • Dear secularlogic
    In my area Hindus are majority. Cow slaughter is punishable under law. Dip hai ki maanta nahi. Some Muslims crave for beef but don't eat because of this law. Those meat sellers who can't resist temptation are hounded by police. 
    Devbandi scholars issued fatwas to stop beef eating because of associated risks with beef eating.
    So be practical. Responsibility of cow peotection is on Hindus and I appeal.to Muslims to respect others religious sentiments.
    Irony is nonbelievers give space to religious sentiments of believers, but  sentiments of unbelievers are at stake. They can't even express their views. Suffocation is the share of unbelievers. Believers enjoy freedom yet complains every time.

    By rational mohammed yunus - 2/2/2015 8:07:19 AM



  • Dear secularlogic.
    Hindus have every right to believe in anything including cows. My observation is that cows are neglected by Hindus not by Muslims. You will never see muslims have driven out cows or buffaloes from their homes. 
    I see cows are wandering on roads eating rubbish. Bulls roam on roads sometime. Why cows should be neglected by Hindus? 
    It is true Hindus don't demand ban on slaughtering of cows in US or other countries. I have seen cows hanging in meat shops of Goa.
    Are Muslim behind the poor conditions of cows in India? Are Hindus unaware when they sell cows to Muslims. Who are beef suppliers to hear eating countries? Why Hindus should be involved in meat business?

    The days when cow was pivots to conomy gone. 
    Nowhere I suggest cow slaughter. I am even against mindless mass slaughtering of animals. 
    I have asked some fundamental questions about cow slaughter. 
    Let us see what Mr kesav quote. 
    I am pained when double standards are in action by any community.
    If we can criticize interpratation of the Quran why it not other holy books.
    My fundamental question is why holy texts are subject of interpratation. 
     Hindus can find beef eating in Hindu books and at the same time some other Hindus find strict vegetarianism. Why such contradiction in holy book?
    So my observation is every scholar of every holy book is playing with it.

    By rational mohammed yunus - 2/2/2015 7:50:56 AM



  • Rational, Kesav

    Just to moderate the cow slaughter debate. 

    The veneration of the cow came about for social, cultural and economic reasons, and overtime the cow was absorbed into the Hindu narrative. As things stand today, the cow is holy for Hindus. 

    The question is not whether they are correct in differentiating a cow from, say, a mosquito. The question is, if the cow is an object of faith for Hindus, in the spirit of harmony, would it not be nice of people of other faiths to desist from cow slaughter, since we are forced to live together and would rather do it with minimum friction? Hindus would have no right to go and demand such consideration in a country where a majority of the population does not hold this taboo. I have not heard of any Hindu in the US or Europe calling for a stop to beef-eating. 

    But in a country where 78 per cent of the population is Hindu, I think they have the right to expect their sentiments to be respected. Just as Indian non-muslim women living in Islamic countries don the burqa as required by local law.

    It is true that Hindus need not eat beef, but they can allow others to eat beef. Logically speaking. But dil hai kee maanta nahin. We would rather that at least in the region where Hindus live in large numbers, the cow remains protected. 

    By secularlogic - 2/2/2015 1:51:19 AM



  • Good Morning Kesav Ji,

     

    I am not sure if you realize that you are on “New Age islam, forum. You have been harping about not slaughtering animals, especially, cow. Fine, if that is your opinion, then well and good. May I ask, “Can’t you convey the same message to the Christians and the Jews?” Aren’t they part of the Abrahamic religions?

     

    So what’s your beef in constantly demanding from Muslims not to kill any animals. What about chicken? What about goat? What about lamb? What about sheep? Aren’t they all animals?

     

    You wrote, “Slaughter of any animal is prohibited,” then why are you so adamant in applying “Double Standards”?

     

    Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia  


    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 2/2/2015 12:58:56 AM



  • Dear kesav
    Your response is too short and unsatisfactory. I read your sentence but you emphasized the cow extraordinary. It gives impression what I mentioned.
    Neither you replied what is mercy. If god is merciful, is he got all his creature. Or god is tathast(indifferent) to suffering of some creatures.
    If you look around and watch discovery and natgeo channel you find every powerfull is eating weak. Why God didn't instruct muslims and Christians to not kill animals.
    Why God is partial? You kill intention ally or unintentionaly microorganisms. Don't they have souls? If there is a soul doesn't it fail pain. Or you are diaturbed only with spectacular suffering. If something doesn't cry or struggle agasint suffering it doesn't meant IG doesn't feel pain.
    It is all conditioning of people. A Hindu butcher kills animals so Muslims do. What do you say about a Hindu butcher? Want will happen to him for a sin of killing of animals.
    Muslims kill animals like all people do it. It doesn't mean they are not compassionates.
    God is man's creation. Therefore man attaches attributes to God what they themselves have.
    Why one thing is sin in one religion but a sin eraser in other religion? If religions were from God and geographical conditions had nothing to do with religions, there must had been uniformality. But there are very few.
    You are conditioned as Muslims are conditioned and other people. You are a Hindu because of your birth and I am a Muslim (I am not open apostate) for the same reason. Only converts (few) accept religions with understanding or unhappiness to their birth religions.
    I am waiting for your detailed response with authentic references.
    I feel no enmity with any believer. I am confined to criticism of beliefs because they are the sources of our wrong behaviour towards other believers.
    At this moment my father in law is under funeral procedures as per Muslim customs. Again these customs are entirely different than those of Hindus.
    You never imagine burying of dead and a Muslim can't imagine cremation. Why there is so much contrast if the religions are from One God?
    A Muslim believes just after burial of dead, deceased will be questioned what he believed in. If he fails torture will begin in the grave. Though it is not in the Quran but it is the firm belief of majority of muslims. 
    So who is righ? Who is on right path?
    You may be believing that all paths lead to God. Do you exclude Muslims?

    By rational mohammed yunus - 2/2/2015 12:11:39 AM



  • Dear Rational,

    In my earlier letter to you,the very first line stated 'Slaughter of any animal is prohibited'.You cannot kill someone for the satisfaction of your tongue.Perhaps you did not read it.


    By Kesav - 2/1/2015 9:39:33 PM



  • Dear kesav 
    Is camel to Arabs and yalk to Tibetans less useful than cow? Do not their children grow on the milk and flesh of these animals?
    Your asking to spare the lives of cows is quite justified but shouldn't you raise your voice for all animals right. Are other animals none of your concern? Your stand is right in Indian perspective but not as animal lover. Why so you limit yourself to cow only?
    If you have genuine concern you should speak agasint any slaughter? Am k asking you too much?

    By rational mohammed yunus - 1/31/2015 11:05:37 AM



  • We also drink the milk of the cow to supplement the mother's milk and in some cases when mother's milk is not available the cow is always available to provide this miracle food.So can you deny that the cow is mother?! If not respect at least spare her life! I am asking for too much?!
    By Kesav - 1/31/2015 7:00:55 AM