Where does the ecclesiastical tribunal for the suppression of heresy which became notorious for unspeakable bestiality and torture established by Pope Gregory IX c. 1232 fit into the vertical/horizontal relationship framework? In 1542 the papal Inquisition was revived to combat Protestantism, eventually becoming an organ of papal government. If this is what was being done by the Pope in the name of the Son of Mary, on fellow Christians, what the rest of the Christians did to their fellow men such as Jews or the indigenous populations in conquered territory is hardly surprising. Now we have a member of the same community drenched in hypocrisy trying to preach to the Muslims on this website!
“I am not willing to sacrifice my being to
a god that can’t keep it straight in a book”
“If my god cannot keep it straight in his
book, then that god is in doubt as well”
I think I am also in your boat. “Why Allah,
who is infallible, with all His power allowed the Books of Moosa, Dawood and
Isa to be corrupted”? After all it was Allah who inspired these prophets to produce
these books. If these books are corrupted how Jews and Christians who followed
these ‘corrupted’ holy books and were able to produce more than 800 Nobel Prize
winners out of 830 or so.? How they were able to invent electricity, nursing
industry (Florence Nightingale) antibiotics, CT/MRI scan and so on and not to
mention all the electronic items we use today? How by believing in corrupted
books, 85% of good works of this world are being done by these people (millions
of NGOs and 700,000 nuns), who obviously turned Allah’s world a better place to
“Quran is the direct speech of Allah to
By saying that Quran is the verbatim or
direct speech of Allah, or it is uncreated and its Xerox copy is in heaven, there
is a real danger in such a claim. Forget that Quran is not in chronological
order or even grouped together by related subject, if, repeat, if there is a
single error in the Quran, then the whole Quran can be a fake one, for Allah
cannot make a single error. Please don’t ask me to point out the glaring errors
in the Quran. I am not a scholar.
“The Ayats urge us to fight those who have
fought us ….those who have driven us out”
Have you forgotten the history? Did the
Syrians, Persians, Egyptians, North Africans, Spanish and Subsequently Indians
drive the Muslims out? It was the other way around. It was the Islamic forces
who had driven them out. Every action has a reaction. Consequently, the West came out of the Dark
Ages and the 800 years of siege mentality, and colonised hundreds of countries
as a counter measure of Islamic conquests.
Anyhow I enjoyed the great article by
Sultan and your comment. I enjoy the difference of opinions.
When we realize the depth of Allah’s
mercy, we too can readily show mercy to His creatures; mercy to gays, mercy to blasphemers,
mercy to prostitutes, mercy to apostates, mercy to our fellow pilgrims Atheists,
Sunnis, Shias, Sufis, Hindus, etc..
We have travelled a long way. Many countries
have stopped capital punishments, giving the culprits a chance to regret their
sins. Allah says “Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? Rather am
I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live?”
We have change the wordings. We don’t say “under
developed countries” but “developing countries” We don’t say “mentally retarded
person” but “intellectually disabled person” so as not to hurt anyone feelings.
“We cannot claim to love Allah and pray
five times while we abuse and harm His creatures”
For any moral person “ It is more about the
right thing to do than the expedient thing to do” It is so with any nation state.
It is expedient for the US to handover
Muhammad Fethullah Gulen to Turkey in order to have good relationship with
Turkey (both members of NATO). But it is not the right thing to do. Hope US
will not hand over Gulen, though Erdogan has become a fast friend with Putin..
It is expedient for the US to leave the
Kurdish people on the lurch and to join hands with Turkey, Iran, Iraq and
Syria. But it is not the right thing to do. Unlike Iraqi soldiers who lost
billion dollars’ worth of US arms and ammunition to ISIS, Kurdish forces
withstood the onslaught of ISIS and cleared swaths of lands held by the ISIS. Though
the four Muslim countries couldn’t see the plight of 35 million fellow Kurdish
Muslims, US would not let them down and do the right thing.
US is said to be the custodian of
democracies yet it supported Egyptian dictatorship and pays every year billions
to Egypt and Israel in order to avoid 4th Arab Israeli war.. It is
the moral courage to do the right thing. The fall of democratic government of
Mohammad Morsi is unfortunate. Barack Obama, a sympathiser of Muslim
Brotherhood, supported Morsi till the last moment, but the Middle East
tradition of dictatorship overcame. Many Muslims still believe that world
caliphate can be achieved only through dictatorships and not through
The main reason for islamophobia is not the
gruesome murders, terror attacks or suicide bombings, but the inability of Ulema
or Islamic theology to do the right thing. For instance, in a Kafir country
like India, Muslims are unable get rid of triple talaq, Halala and polygamy.
How can they do it in a Muslim majority country? Even in the so called Moderate
Muslim Indonesia, people started crying ‘Muslims should vote for a Muslim
Do the Muslims have the moral courage to
implement the core values?
Only a God of
moral perfection is God.
“For instance, jihadists are able to misuse the
intolerant, xenophobic, war-time verses of the holy Quran, as Muslims believe
that all verses, regardless of the context, are of universal applicability”
This is the paragraph that most caught my attention in
your article and caused my need to respond to you! What you said here is best
described by the American colloquialism, “Throwing the Baby out with the bath
Remember that the Ayats you are referring to come from
the Qur’an which is, if you are Muslim, the direct speech of Allah to
humankind. As Muslims we see Allah(swt) as omnipotent, all seeing and all wise.
In short Allah is infallible, thus his speech must be also be infallible. To describe the speech of Allah as intolerant
and xenophobic is to become like Al-Ghazali and others you describe that you
refer to below.
The Ayats you are describing are clear and to the
point. They urge us to fight those who have fought us, to drive them out of the
homes they have driven us out of; but if they offer us peace then leave them
alone. I do not see the intolerance or
xenophobia you proscribe to these Ayats.
The Qur’an is the furqan, the basis of all justification. What I think
you are missing here is the reality that the intolerance and xenophobia you
mention is the result of men mixing the words of men with the words of Allah
that causes Muslims to act out in ways that are unjustifiable. What has happened, in my opinion, is that we,
as Muslims, have done what the Yahudi and Nazara have done, we have displaced
the Word of Allah with the words of men.
You, yourself, will acknowledge this fact below!
“Indeed, the Islamic theology of consensus, taught
in all madrasas, says that Quran is uncreated, meaning that it is just an
aspect of God; and so, divine like God Himself “
One of the most tragic and absolutely insane episodes
among Muslims was the argument over whether the Qur’an was revealed or
created. What nonsense to spill blood
over! The Qur’an was delivered to us through the Messenger and is the direct
speech of Allah. In this Qur’an, in Surat Al Maida, Allah warns us not to
question the matters of religion too deeply or we will run into the same
complications and craziness the Yahudi did. Guess what we did, we created a
body of works and scholarship that surpasses anything the Children of Isra’il
did and it is destroying us!
“This is completely irrational. Suppose Meccan elite
had not responded to Islam’s message of equality with violence and persecution,
leading to Prophet Mohammad fleeing to Madina. There would have been no battles
in Prophet’s lifetime and no war-time verses would have been required. How can
these verses then acquire universal applicability and eternal value? “
Because we, as humankind, are universally the same
people that we were then. Just as brutal, just as murderous and just as unjust
as our ancestors. Nothing has changed except our technology, which by the way,
has enabled us to murder, pillage and destroy our neighbors much more
efficiently than before. And while the
Western Civilizations of Europe and America have in the last 150 years murdered
more of humankind than in all previous history (some 10k years) we as Muslims
appear to have gladly joined in with the orgy of mayhem and murder more so
among ourselves than against those outside our ranks.
“Not only that. There is also a near-consensus in
Islamic theology around the so-called Doctrine of Abrogation whereby all
peaceful, pluralistic Meccan verses, at least 124, are considered abrogated by
the later confrontational Medinan verses. This is most damaging for Islam and
useful for jihadism”
Now you are finally approaching rationality!! In the
first paragraph that I quoted from you, you where providing the ammunition from
which these scholars came up with this theory of Abrogation. Your classifying
verses from the Qur’an as intolerant and xenophobic provide the intellectual
fuel for fostering this “Doctrine of Abrogation”
fire of ignorance. Think about it, the only way that abrogation could work is
to establish the fallibility of Allah, thus the need to abrogate and correct
our God. Are you getting this? If Allah
is fallible, then the whole book comes into question as does our religion. I do not know about you, but I am not willing
to sacrifice my being to a god that can’t keep it straight in a book that is
supposed to be our “guidance without doubt”.
Do you realize what is wrong here? Allah said he perfected our religion
in this book. If my god cannot keep it straight in his book, then that god is
in doubt as well. So as a Muslim who
believes in Allah and his Messenger I cannot even dare to approach such a
dichotomy of faith. Allah is infallible and so is his speech, the Qur’an. If you disagree with that then just stop
reading here because we no longer have a basis for discussion. And may Allah give all of us guidance.
“How do Islamic theologians reconcile the
uncreatedness of Quran, its total, unquestionable divinity, with the Doctrine
of Abrogation is beyond a rational person’s understanding. This is a belief
with hardly any basis in Quran. It evolved hundreds of years after the demise
of the Prophet”
Yes, you are shining the light brother, Allahu
Akbar! This “Doctrine
of Abrogation” is the work of those who would displace
the words of Allah with their own words.
“The same is true of the divinity and universal
applicability attached to Hadith, the so-called sayings of the Prophet, and
Sharia laws. Narrations of Hadith were recorded decades and centuries after the
Prophet passed away. Almost the last verse of the Quran (5:3) says that God has
now completed the religion of Islam. How can we write books centuries after that
and give them the status of revealed literature? Yet, all ulema are agreed that
Hadith is akin to revelation. This is clearly the height of irrationality”
You are scaring me Brother, you are talking like you
know what has happened to us. Allah is clear on this point as well, where he
says “What? Do they need a book other than the word of Allah?) Allah points us
to the people of the book and points out that they threw their book behand
there back and acted like they didn’t know what Allah was talking about. He then warns those destined for the
punishment that the writing of their own book is the selling of their souls for
a miserable price.
Do you understand that neither of the people of the
book have their book? They threw it away or had it taken from them. In the case of Ban’ai Isra’il, they had their
book taken away from them for worshiping false gods. Allah ordered Nebuchadnezzar to take their Arc of the Covenant
containing their book away never to be seen again. What is called the Torah today is the
conglomeration of oral traditions put together by two opposing groups of scholars. The Nazara were split between two opposing
groups as well. The Trinitarians led by Athanasius and the Monotheists led by Arius.
Constantine sided with Athanasius and the Trinitarians and the Monotheists
Nazara where hunted down like dogs, crucified and otherwise murdered. All of the books of the Monotheist Nazara
where burned when found. Both the Nazara
and the Yahud rely on oral traditions provided by men and have gone through
many revisions. Why do I ramble on about this you ask? Because we have done the very same thing, we
have thrown the Book of Allah behind our backs like we do not know what it is
and instead follow our own set of Oral Tradtions. And in some circles those
Oral Traditions overrule the speech of Allah. Do you wonder why we have this
Jihadist philosophy? It is because we
place the words of ignorant men above the speech of Allah.
“Similarly Sharia was first codified 120 years after
the demise of the Prophet, based on some verses of the Quran and Arab practices
of that era. This has been changing from country to country and age to
age. How can we Muslims be told, as we are by a multitude of scholars,
that it is a Muslim’s prime religious duty to see that this Sharia is
established in the world”
Are you talking about ‘Imam al Shafi’i” or of the
Mutazilites? Both represent a sad misleading of us off the path. But alas, we
followed then and are responsible as well.
“ Wherever a Muslim turns, from al-Ghazali, Ibn-e-Taimiyya,
Abdul Wahhab, Sheikh Sarhindi, Shah Waliullah to Syed Qutb and Maulana Maududi,
he or she gets the same Islam-supremacist message. “
Islam is the supreme way of life for humankind. There
is no getting around that if you believe what Allah, through his Messenger, has
delivered to us the Qur’an. But being the correct and supreme way of life
(religion) does not give us the right to impose our faith on anyone else. Allah is clear on this point in many places.
I suggest you read Fatiha, then read Al-Baqarah. They are tightly tied to each other. As the Muslims, we are supposed to be the
light that illuminates the path to success.
We should hope and desire to lead the Nazara, Yahud, Hindi and all those
others that are astray onto the correct path by our example. If we attempt to force others onto the path
we can only do so by leaving the path and becoming gatekeepers driving them
away with our arrogance.
What I say here is from myself with my understanding
of the Speech of Allah. If I misspeak here it is only because of my error and
not that of Allah.
delayed is justice denied” This statement is true in the case of Naseer, who
was recently freed by court after 23 years. Do you remember his words after
getting out of under-trial prison? He told that he was a living corpse. You can
imagine his mental agony and torture he tolerated and his trust upon judiciary
Indian police who had framed him to get accolades from RSS minded people.
Anyway, my point was that the Bhopal jail under-trials even could not get that
chance as they too might have come out of charges after 23 years, but they were
killed brutally in an apparent fake encounter.
asked, “Does this court delay is happening to Muslims only?”
not! This delay is not caused to the Muslims only, but there is a large chunk
of poor Indians who are the victims of delayed justice. However, who cares? Our
previous CJI had wept in a judicial programme while discussing the matter of
shortage of judges in Supreme Court, but who listens?
right. The committed Muslims are trying to play a constructive role, but on the
other hand, the uncommitted Muslims are busy in garnering financial, social
support for their political gain by using the illiterate, innocent Muslims.
These are the petty Muslim politician or the majority leaders who have made the
Muslim population a vote bank, and they are playing victim-game or blame-game
whatsoever suits to them. Even our PM projects himself as the great savior of
Muslim women from the oppressive clutches of triple talaq under whose
government, Muslim women were killed brutally, wombs torn apart and the
undelivered human kids were hung upon the spears.
You can imagine
which way Indian society is heading under BJP rule, what good the police, court
or bureaucrats can deliver to the Indian Muslim community.
suggestion: “Write some good done by Hindus to Muslim rather than constantly
focus on Muslim victim”. I whole-heartedly, appreciate and feel obliged to my
Hindu brothers, sisters, teachers and students above all. What I am today, and
there are Billions like me, is due to my Indian proud society and composite
culture, which has attributed fully to our growth, no doubt.
I dislike and write against is purely because
of selfish, corrupt, heartless and money-minded people only, I never mean those
peaceful people who are very close to my heart even more than our community people
support Sharia law in some cases and think that the instant capital punishment is
a must for the rapist and killers in any country.
Aayina: Thanks for giving the perfect examples of lawlessness, political vendetta prevailing in the country under RSS rule. My point is the judicial system that has some logic behind it. What is wrong if the affected family accepts the blood money? It will help them in future, if they don't agree, even a royal prince is killed for Islamic justice, it is Shariya Law.
I gave example of fresh fake encounters that is happening in the greatest democracy. Is it justice? Have you asked a question any time to yourself?
Why the Muslim under-trials only escape from the jail?
Later on, they are killed and some weapons are planted, proofs are destroyed before the forensic team reaches.
This type of law and order you appreciate where Babri Masjid detainee is released innocent after 23 years.
The present government has ruined the Indian judicial system and they are using it to their political gain.
That's my point whether you like it or not. Thanks!
Comment from Vishnu Kp
GM Sb, Do you need to understand what all Allah does
when he sends his Messenger or the ways in which He becomes a Helper and Guide
to those who submit to Him completely?
Read my series in 6
Story of the Prophetic mission of Muhammad (pbuh) from the Qu’ran (part 1): The
He warned the Meccans exactly what they may
expect to happen to them if they opposed the Prophet at a very early stage in
the mission when the Prophet did not have more than half a dozen followers and made
that prediction come true.
He reminded the Jews and the Christians of their
covenant with God to help the Messenger. Over and above the covenant in their
own scriptures which they could not deny, there was the charter of Medina to
which they were party. The ultimate argument of their lack of “good faith” is that they
took for friends those who were the enemies of the Muslims and aided them when
they had an understanding with the Muslims to at least remain neutral. What
they had covenanted with Allah according to their own scriptures was as
(3:81) Behold! Allah took the covenant of
the prophets, saying: "I give you a Book and Wisdom; then comes to you a
messenger, confirming what is with you; do ye believe in him and render him
help." Allah said: "Do ye agree, and take this my Covenant as binding
on you?" They said: "We agree." He said: "Then bear
witness, and I am with you among the witnesses."(82) If any turn back
after this, they are perverted transgressors.
By keeping the Prophet informed
of the mischief planned by the hypocrites among the Muslims and the People of
the Book and making it known to them that God was aware of everything that was
going on between them, God demoralized these enemies from attempting anything
serious which would have called for their destruction. It saved both parties
from serious consequences.
God says "Fight in the cause of Allah"
and when you do that on the command of Allah, then Allah is your Guide and
Helper. He keeps you informed of what is going on in the hearts of the enemy;
He puts terror into the hearts of the enemy so that despite their numerical
superiority they can do no harm. He says:
Allah has decreed: "It is I and My messengers who must prevail": For
Allah is One full of strength, able to enforce His Will.
ensures exactly what He says.
choose to submit to Allah and become an instrument of His will so that He may
also become your Guide and Helper. There is no compulsion in religion however,
and you may choose your way. You will begin to understand only when your
questioning becomes part of clearing of a doubt and a genuine attempt to
understand. As long as it is criticism, you will fail to understand anything.
So if it is criticism, don’t even bother to respond. This exchange will go on
without achieving anything. In any case, I have written an article in 6 parts which explains the entire prophetic mission spanning 22 years which can be read if you need to gain a holistic understanding.
(5:48) To thee We sent
the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and
guarding it in safety: so judge between them by what Allah hath revealed, and
follow not their vain desires, diverging from the Truth that hath come to thee.
To each among you have we prescribed a law and an open way. If Allah had so
willed, He would have made you a single people, but (His plan is) to test you
in what He hath given you: so strive as in a race in all virtues. The goal of
you all is to Allah; it is He that will show you the truth of the matters in
which ye dispute;
(49) And this (He
commands): Judge thou between them by what Allah hath revealed, and follow not
their vain desires, but beware of them lest they beguile thee from any of that
(teaching) which Allah hath sent down to thee. And if they turn away, be
assured that for some of their crime it is Allah´s purpose to punish them. And
truly most men are rebellious.
(50) Do they then seek
after a judgment of (the days of) ignorance? But who, for a people whose faith
is assured, can give better judgment than Allah?
(51) O ye who believe!
take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are
but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them
(for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust.
(52) Those in whose
hearts is a disease - thou seest how eagerly they run about amongst them,
saying: "We do fear lest a change of fortune bring us disaster." Ah!
perhaps Allah will give (thee) victory, or a decision according to His will.
Then will they repent of the thoughts which they secretly harboured in their
(53) And those who
believe will say: "Are these the men who swore their strongest oaths by
Allah, that they were with you?" All that they do will be in vain, and
they will fall into (nothing but) ruin.
Verses 52 and 53 make clear why they are not to be trusted and events proved it right.
(54) O ye who believe!
if any from among you turn back from his Faith, soon will Allah produce a
people whom He will love as they will love Him,- lowly with the believers, mighty
against the rejecters, fighting in the way of Allah, and never afraid of the
reproaches of such as find fault. That is the grace of Allah, which He will
bestow on whom He pleaseth. And Allah encompasseth all, and He knoweth all
(55) Your (real) friends
are (no less than) Allah, His Messenger, and the (fellowship of) believers,-
those who establish regular prayers and regular charity, and they bow down
humbly (in worship).
(56) As to those who
turn (for friendship) to Allah, His Messenger, and the (fellowship of)
believers,- it is the fellowship of Allah that must certainly triumph.
(57) O ye who believe!
take not for friends and protectors those who take your religion for a mockery
or sport,- whether among those who received the Scripture before you, or among
those who reject Faith; but fear ye Allah, if ye have faith (indeed).
(58) When ye proclaim
your call to prayer they take it (but) as mockery and sport; that is because
they are a people without understanding.
(59) Say: "O
people of the Book! Do ye disapprove of us for no other reason than that we
believe in Allah, and the revelation that hath come to us and that which came
before (us), and (perhaps) that most of you are rebellious and
(60) Say: "Shall
I point out to you something much worse than this, (as judged) by the treatment
it received from Allah? those who incurred the curse of Allah and His wrath,
those of whom some He transformed into apes and swine, those who worshipped
evil;- these are (many times) worse in rank, and far more astray from the even
(61) When they come to
thee, they say: "We believe": but in fact they enter with a mind
against Faith, and they go out with the same but Allah knoweth fully all that
(62) Many of them dost
thou see, racing each other in sin and rancour, and their eating of things
forbidden. Evil indeed are the things that they do.
(63) Why do not the
rabbis and the doctors of Law forbid them from their (habit of) uttering sinful
words and eating things forbidden? Evil indeed are their works.
(64) The Jews say:
"Allah´s hand is tied up." Be their hands tied up and be they
accursed for the (blasphemy) they utter. Nay, both His hands are widely
outstretched: He giveth and spendeth (of His bounty) as He pleaseth. But the
revelation that cometh to thee from Allah increaseth in most of them their
obstinate rebellion and blasphemy. Amongst them we have placed enmity and
hatred till the Day of Judgment. Every time they kindle the fire of war, Allah
doth extinguish it; but they (ever) strive to do mischief on earth. And Allah
loveth not those who do mischief.
(65) If only the
People of the Book had believed and been righteous, We should indeed have
blotted out their iniquities and admitted them to gardens of bliss.
(66) If only they had
stood fast by the Law, the Gospel, and all the revelation that was sent to them
from their Lord, they would have enjoyed happiness from every side. There is
from among them a party on the right course: but many of them follow a course
that is evil.
(67) O Messenger!
proclaim the (message) which hath been sent to thee from thy Lord. If thou
didst not, thou wouldst not have fulfilled and proclaimed His mission. And
Allah will defend thee from men (who mean mischief). For Allah guideth not
those who reject Faith.
(68) Say: "O
People of the Book! ye have no ground to stand upon unless ye stand fast by the
Law, the Gospel, and all the revelation that has come to you from your
Lord." It is the revelation that cometh to thee from thy Lord, that
increaseth in most of them their obstinate rebellion and blasphemy. But sorrow
thou not over (these) people without Faith.
(69) Those who believe
(in the Qur´an), those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Sabians and
the Christians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work
righteousness,- on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.
(70) We took the
covenant of the Children of Israel and sent them messengers, every time, there
came to them a messenger with what they themselves desired not - some (of
these) they called impostors, and some they (go so far as to) slay.
(71) They thought
there would be no trial (or punishment); so they became blind and deaf; yet
Allah (in mercy) turned to them; yet again many of them became blind and deaf.
But Allah sees well all that they do.
It is the Islamic theology based on the ahadith that is corrupted and
needs to be cleaned up. I have covered every subject on the basis of a very
detailed discussion of all the relevant verses from the Quran. The Quran does
not teach intolerance or xenophobia. Please read:
Complete Agenda for Reform in Islamic Theology
No verse of the Quran is abrogated. No verse from
the Quran contradicts another verse from the Quran let alone the Medinian Quran
teaching anything different from the Meccan Quran. The message of the Quran is
a seamless continuity.
To get an idea of how the ahadith corrupt the
message of the Quran and have lead to corruption of Islamic theology, read:
The Ahadith That Distort The Message Of The Quran - Part
The Ahadith That Distort The Message Of The Quran – Part