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Books and Documents

Islam and Pluralism

34 - COMMENTS

  • The concept of psychological projection is well grounded in classical psychology and continues to be as relevant today and used in modern psychology. 

    It is Hats Off who indulges in quack psychiatry when he attributes motives to Ibrahim (AS) and in the process reveals the source of the demons in his mind that has made him such a dedicated Islamophobe. He is fighting back his father who he thinks had murderous hatred for him. Hatred for his father's religion, beliefs, likes etc is a natural consequence.

    By Naseer Ahmed - 3/22/2017 11:24:21 PM



  • "some good news from morocco."

    Death penalty for apostates is really an Old Testament subject which was stolen by some hadiths. It behooves modern ulama to firmly reject it.

    By Ghulam Mohiyuddin - 3/22/2017 1:05:26 PM



  • Poor Hats Off! As if calling it 'pop psychaitry' would hide the fact that he is in denial!

    By Ghulam Mohiyuddin - 3/22/2017 12:52:18 PM



  • i don't enjoy playing pop psychiatry and quack psychology. and if he wants a lesson in freudian theory he can ask mr. ghulam mohiyuddin nicely. he might get some professional help. so i suggest mr. naseer ahmed better stick to exegesis and defending the indefensible verses of the Holy Qur'an. he did a good job of defending sex slavery and jizya. so let him shine in that department and leave the pop psychiatry to mr. ghulam mohiyuddin By hats off! - 3/22/2017 3:30:51 AM



  • some good news from morocco.
    jeuneafrique.com/mag/411892/societe/apostasie-peine-de-mort-chapeau-messieurs-oulemas
    By hats off! - 3/22/2017 3:25:56 AM



  • Hats Off's ignorance amazes me. Being ignorant is excusable but not knowing that he is ignorant makes him a dangerous fool. He could have looked up the meaning of projection in the sense it is used. He appears to be projecting his own perception of his father's murderous  hatred for him onto the relationship between Ibrahim (AS) and his son Ismail (AS). There is nothing in the story otherwise for any normal person to think that Ibrahim (AS) had anything but filial love for his son and certainly not "murderous hatred" as projected by Hats Off.

    Hats Off may google "Psychologiccal projection" to learn more about the subject.

    By Naseer Ahmed - 3/22/2017 2:00:08 AM



  • There may be some truth in saying that excessive and unreasonable hostility to a person or a group may have oedipal roots,  but such a formulation of course does not apply to everybody.

    By Ghulam Mohiyuddin - 3/21/2017 1:41:44 PM



  • mr. naseer ahmed never ceases to amaze.

    now he is a projectionist. i thought projectionists went out of work after digital theaters took over. but as i said mr. naseer ahmed never ceases to amaze. sometimes he is a market researcher. sometimes he is a dictionary writer. other times he is an amateur musician. mostly he is the defender of the indefensible. now and then he is the sole arbitrator of what the Holy Qur'an says to him. i do not know when he gets the time to be an engineer.

    these days he is an islamic psychopathologist slash psychiatrist.


    By hats off! - 3/21/2017 6:24:55 AM



  • I never said to Hats Off that his father tried to decapitate him. His unreasonable, intemperate and emotional outburst to the story of Ibrahim (AS) and Ismail (AS) in which both the son and the father willingly submit to what they think is God's command clearly suggests that the story triggers unpleasant dark memories in Hats Off's mind.  Hats Off accusing Ibrahim (AS) of murderous hatred for his son when the son came to no harm, makes sense only if this is a projection of Hats Off's perception of his own father as having murderous hatred for him.

    By Naseer Ahmed - 3/20/2017 11:41:46 PM



  • Abraham's story is a simple story to affirm the depth of his faith and to illustrate the grace of his God. Hats Off's attempt to use it to accentuate his hate propaganda against Islam and Judaism is despicable.
    By Ghulam Mohiyuddin - 3/20/2017 1:48:25 PM



  • as far as i remember, my father never took me anywhere with intent to decapitate me.

    your responses suggest that your actual gods are your prophets.
    By hats off! - 3/20/2017 10:45:49 AM



  • The correct story from the Quran is in my comment bellow By Naseer Ahmed - 3/17/2017 11:43:29 PM.

    We don't need Hats Off to tell us what it is based on the demons in his head about his own father.

    By Naseer Ahmed - 3/20/2017 6:58:41 AM



  • ok. i will rephrase it.
    abraham loved his son so much he was willing to slit his throat on the basis of a crazy dream.
    that should make mr. naseer ahmed feel better about violent impulses of crazed men revered as prophets of violent texts.
    By hats off! - 3/20/2017 5:03:23 AM



  • Hats Off says: "that would explain his (Abraham's) visions of murderous hatred for his son." 

    That is Hats Off's version and a projection of what he thinks his own father had for him - murderous hatred! No wonder Hats Off's hates his father and his religion so much that he has turned into a hostile apostate.
    By Naseer Ahmed - 3/19/2017 11:19:16 PM



  • Abrham was having vision, a new version of prophethood.

    Please someone can distinguish with this new version that God's Audio reciver phrophets  and God's  Visual reciver Phrophets.

    I am enjoying this new versions. Progress has been made from radio reciver to satellite receiver stories of God.

    Human seems much better than invented stories of  God because thousand of people can see the data transmitted from Audio or Visual stations.

    Humans are much even better becuse their are free and paid satellite services not like god selected station like Abrham, Jesues and tractional selected phrophets in Arabs lands.

    Good luck to Muslim for closed satation services ans their history to cut each other throats on whatever name. 
     


    By Aayina - 3/18/2017 3:07:54 PM



  • For a professional person, Hats Off's knowledge of psychopathology is abysmal.

    By Ghulam Mohiyuddin - 3/18/2017 12:56:11 PM



  • may be abraham was on shrooms. or some khat. that would explain his visions of murderous hatred for his son.

    in the mad mad world of the believers, visions are somhoe better than mere hallucinations.

    with his brilliant quack psychiatry, mr. naseer ahmed joins the elite club of online islamic psychiatry.

    welcome to the madhouse! i hope you enjoy your stay with us.
    By hats off! - 3/18/2017 2:36:57 AM



  • It is Hats Off who is hallucinating and  has created his own version of the storyfrom his hallucinations.

    The story in the Quran is as follows:

    (37:100) "O my Lord! Grant me a righteous (son)!"
    (101) So We gave him the good news of a boy ready to suffer and forbear.
    (102) Then, when (the son) reached (the age of) (serious) work with him, he said: "O my son! I see in vision that I offer thee in sacrifice: Now see what is thy view!" (The son) said: "O my father! Do as thou art commanded: thou will find me, if Allah so wills one practising Patience and Constancy!"
    (103) So when they had both submitted their wills (to Allah), and he had laid him prostrate on his forehead (for sacrifice),
    (104) We called out to him "O Abraham!
    (105) "Thou hast already fulfilled the vision!" - thus indeed do We reward those who do right.
    (106) For this was obviously a trial-
    (107) And We ransomed him with a momentous sacrifice:
    (108) And We left (this blessing) for him among generations (to come) in later times:
    (109) "Peace and salutation to Abraham!"
    (110) Thus indeed do We reward those who do right.

    Points to be noted:

    1. It was a vision and not voices heard. 
    2. The son had reached an age at which he could consent as an adult or withhold his consent  and he consented to submitting to what his father saw in his vision. What is clear is that this was a test for both the father and the son and if the son had refused to submit, the father would have been helpless to carry out what he saw in his vision.
    3. The vision was limited to laying down the son for sacrifice and not actually sacrificing and at this precise point, he heard a voice terminating the ordeal. (Is Hats Off trying to say that what he heard was an auditory hallucination and that he should have sacrificed the son?). What he heard must have also been heard by the son.


    As for God the Creator, He has created life on earth and the food chain and there is no running away from it. The herbivorous animals are food for the carnivorous animals and for the human beings and there is no sacrifice for the sake of sacrifice but for eventual consumption. The sacrifice is in distribution to the poor.

    The story is dramatic and there is no other way to end the scourge of child/human sacrifice in the society except through a dramatic event. Those who hate their father will find the story disturbing as this may revive the ghosts of their painful childhood memories about their hate relationship with their father. Most hostile apostates are known to have hatred for their father and their act of apostasy is an act of rejection of their father and his religion. On top of it if one has a non-Muslim mother, and has a relationship of hate with his father, the result is a Hats Off.

    By Naseer Ahmed - 3/17/2017 11:43:29 PM



  • I am enjoying the conversation of Abrahm as insane man and as well as sane man with different points of view.

    But here is question why did than Muslim picked up now Goat(or equivalent other halal animal)and made life of this creature horrible.

     If Abrham and his talking God were sane than they would have not replace child with Goat rather this holy combo should have stopped the practice of sacrifice all together banning  human or animal sacrifice but in this combo God is changing  the creature form human to animal.


    Whatever the truth about story at era of Abrham we are witnessing mass people are involved in the ritual which was intial absured( child sacrifice as per Naseer Ahmed) replaced by another absured(sacrifices of animal, actually killing) who knows sacrifice of human child can be re-invented as essence of sacrifice and enjoyment of killing is there.

    Obviously this will be non-Muslim child. ISIS had started cannbilism to instigate fear in non-believers.

    Than how about Hindu practising sacrifice of animal or human, well it existed everywhere in the world in the name of God, only last and majority race practice killing or sacrifice ritual on name of God is Muslims, rest are with fringe population practicing killing of animal or human.

    All is to blame Abrham and his God combo, A shame that is brought upon thiest men(only Muslims are left out rest two Abrahmic relgions have stopped using God for their lust of eating food as animal)
    By Aayina - 3/17/2017 5:34:33 PM



  • The story is simply an affirmation of Abraham's faith. Wags will try to distort it because that is all that they know,

    By the way, anthropologists tell us that hearing voices was not uncommon in ancient times. Jumping to a diagnosis of schizophrenia is   simply naivete.

    By Ghulam Mohiyuddin - 3/17/2017 1:07:21 PM



  • this is a perfect example of schizophrenics being accepted and venerated as prophets.

    it also explains why insanity is always claimed by the european press for perpetrators of terrorist attacks that occur all over europe even today.

    if abraham were an honorable man, he would have simply disregarded the voices that asked him to cut the throat of his own son or sought help from his well wishers. but the fact that he chose to carry out his hallucinations, makes him an A class prophet. and he is at the head of the abrahamic religions.

    a man whose auditory hallucination tells him to murder his son is a psychiatric case. but educated men who revere him as a prophet are accomplices.

    if sane men mistake him for a prophet, then it is a perfect example of people who will defend those acting out their dreams, delusions and hallucinations and blame it on god. they will never accept responsibility for their own delusions.

    just like the zodiac killer, ted bundy and other "venerable" persons. psychopaths have always said that they are carrying out instructions from an invisible source.

    in essence this IS religion - hallucinations given the cloak of divine revelations.

    when these hallucinations are documented by borderline companions of the schizophrenic prophets then that document becomes a scripture.

    and in turn this text is venerated by men who can not take responsibility for their own actions. that is religiosity.
    By hats off! - 3/17/2017 7:04:46 AM



  • Is that even an example? The father didn't kill and the son didn't die and with this episode, Allah showed that such sacrifice is not called upon by Allah even of his messengers let alone ordinary men thus ending the evil of child sacrifice prevalent in that society.
    By Naseer Ahmed - 3/17/2017 2:39:03 AM



  • Hats Off,  That is a silly analogy and you know it.
    By Ghulam Mohiyuddin - 3/16/2017 1:21:29 PM



  • it was abraham that attempted to slit the throat of his child. not an atheist. By hats off! - 3/16/2017 6:33:36 AM



  • The atheists are the ingrate rebels against reason and their own instinct. How do some people get to murder their own parent or child? Theses exceptions do not disprove the fact that the instinct is to love those who are closely related by birth.

    By Naseer Ahmed - 3/15/2017 10:30:19 AM



  • if humans are born with a 'genetic memory' to 'believe' in god, how did atheism come about?

    atheism has a history as old as theism. like in particle physics, every particle is created along with its anti particle.
    By hats off! - 3/15/2017 7:57:57 AM



  • The state of fitrah is explained by the following verse:

     (7:172) When thy Lord drew forth from the Children of Adam - from their loins - their descendants, and made them testify concerning themselves, (saying): "Am I not your Lord (who cherishes and sustains you)?"- They said: "Yea! We do testify!" (This), lest ye should say on the Day of Judgment: "Of this we were never mindful":

     What the verse means is that human beings are born with the instinct or genetic memory to believe in a God with His attributes of Creator, Sustainer etc. Thereafter his parents teach him to become whatever. Islam has been separately called the Deen-e-fitrah or the religion in accordance with human nature. This would be the claim of every other religion also and indeed Islam as used in the Quran means the religion of submission to God. Is there any religion which is not about submission to God?

     The article is about Islam’s attitude towards the peaceful “other”. The verses that Ashok Sharma cites concerns the warring “other”. For a proper understanding of the Quranic verses that deal with the warring "other"read:

    The Much discussed and debated Medinian Verses Relating to Fighting

    By Naseer Ahmed - 3/15/2017 3:33:13 AM



  • its just a matter of time before believers of the bhagavadgeetha start killing their cousins.

    it shall also come to pass.

    the fact that dalits are facing what they are facing is precisely because varnasharama dharma is taken seriously enough to be practiced in earnest.

    ever wonder why the numerous shankaracharyas maintain such a studies silence when khairlanjis happen? varnashramadharma is here and real.

    history is littered with examples of people who have taken their scriptures very seriously and putting into practice the most horrific portion therein.

    and there has been a corresponding reluctance to practice the less horrific portions ones from them.
    By hats off! - 3/15/2017 12:47:07 AM



  • There is as much violence in the Christian and Jewish Bibles as there is in the Quran. If one wanted to be nasty, would one say that Gita is a justification to kill one's cousins? It would be silly to say that.

    Jews and Christians have shown that one can derive the best of precepts from one's holy books and ignore the objectionable parts. Muslims too must learn to do that. And those who want to reject the scriptures have a perfect right to do so as long as they do not make a nuisance of themselves in a progressive Muslim website.

    By Ghulam Mohiyuddin - 3/14/2017 11:42:15 PM



  • Dear Ashok Sharma!
    Your questions are pertinent. My explanations are as follows:

    The Qur’an features scores of verses exhorting the followers of the Prophet to fight against their pagan attackers and violators of treaty alliances, and those who first attacked them and expelled them from their homelands. These verses, related to a transitional period of the revelation are thus specific to the context of the revelation and do not form a part of its eternally binding definitive message. They must, however, be retained in the Qur’an to attest to the defensive character of the Prophetic mission that faced mounting hostilities from the pagans and conspiracies from its own ranks (the hypocrites) and native Jewish tribes. However, the Qur’an moderates its fighting verses with reconciliatory verses. Thus, a passage dating from the late Medinite period asks the Muslims to be just and virtuous to those who did not fight against them over religion, nor expelled them from their homelands (60:8), and reminds them that their enemies could eventually become their friends (60:7). The revelation also clarifies that it forbade the Muslims to befriend only those who fought against them over religion, and expelled them from their homelands and helped (others) in their expulsion (60:9).

    "God does not forbid you to be virtuous and just to those who did not fight you over religion, nor drove you from your homelands. Indeed, God loves the just (8). God only forbids you to befriend those who fought against you over religion, and expelled you from your homelands, and backed (others) in your expulsion; and whoever befriends them – it is they who are unjust” (60:9).

    Quoting a fighting verse in isolation as an eternally binding dictate can grievously distort the message of the Qur’an. Most of the verses related to fighting as often quoted in isolation or out of context by Islam critical scholarship or literalist Ulema are referenced in Chapter 3 of my jt. exegetic work ref. below in a broad historical matrix that sheds light on their historical context." Thanks!

    Re:: http://www.newageislam.com/books-and-documents/by-muhammad-yunus---ashfaque-ullah-syed/essential-message-of-islam-(full-text)/d/104768

    By muhammd yunus - 3/14/2017 10:17:05 PM



  • Mazhari sahab's deriving the message of tolerance from the Quran is very appropriate and is highly appreciated. It should be heeded.

    By Ghulam Mohiyuddin - 3/14/2017 1:35:31 PM



  • No compulsion? Are these Surahs not real? Surah: 16.106 Whoever disbelieves in Allah after his belief... except for one who is forced [to renounce his religion] while his heart is secure in faith. But those who [willingly] open their breasts to disbelief, upon them is wrath from Allah , and for them is a great punishment; Surah: 16.107 That is because they preferred the worldly life over the Hereafter and that Allah does not guide the disbelieving people. Surah: 16.109 Assuredly, it is they, in the Hereafter, who will be the losers. Surah: 88. 23-24 However, he who turns away and disbelieves - Then Allah will punish him with the greatest punishment. Surah: 3.86-91 How shall Allah guide a people who disbelieved after their belief and had witnessed that the Messenger is true and clear signs had come to them? And Allah does not guide the wrongdoing people. Those - their recompense will be that upon them is the curse of Allah and the angels and the people, all together, Abiding eternally therein. The punishment will not be lightened for them, nor will they be reprieved. Except for those who repent after that and correct themselves. For indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful. Indeed, those who reject the message after their belief and then increase in disbelief - never will their [claimed] repentance be accepted, and they are the ones astray. Indeed, those who disbelieve and die while they are disbelievers - never would the [whole] capacity of the earth in gold be accepted from one of them if he would [seek to] ransom himself with it. For those there will be a painful punishment, and they will have no helpers. Surah: 4.89 They wish you would disbelieve as they disbelieved so you would be alike. So do not take from among them allies until they emigrate for the cause of Allah . But if they turn away, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them and take not from among them any ally or helper. There have to be large scale reforms in all religions. Islam also needs reforms. Justification of unjustifiable ideas does not lead us anywhere. By Ashok Sharma - 3/14/2017 1:04:47 PM



  • In today’s information age, people can not be fooled. In the age of science and reason , one can not force people to believe in some archaic tribal ideas by force. Please explain what do these Surahs mean ?

    8:12  [Remember] when your Lord inspired to the angels, "I am with you, so strengthen those who have believed. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieved, so strike [them] upon the necks and strike from them every fingertip."

    3.28:  Let not believers take disbelievers as allies rather than believers. And whoever [of you] does that has nothing with Allah , except when taking precaution against them in prudence. And Allah warns you of Himself, and to Allah is the [final] destination.

    8.65:  O Prophet, urge the believers to battle. If there are among you twenty [who are] steadfast, they will overcome two hundred. And if there are among you one hundred [who are] steadfast, they will overcome a thousand of those who have disbelieved because they are a people who do not understand.

    9.5:   And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.

    9.14:   Fight them; Allah will punish them by your hands and will disgrace them and give you victory over them and satisfy the breasts of a believing people

    9.23:  O you who have believed, do not take your fathers or your brothers as allies if they have preferred disbelief over belief. And whoever does so among you - then it is those who are the wrongdoers.

    9.28:  O you who have believed, indeed the polytheists are unclean, so let them not approach al-Masjid al-Haram after this, their [final] year. And if you fear privation, Allah will enrich you from His bounty if He wills. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Wise.

    9.123:  O you who have believed, fight those adjacent to you of the disbelievers and let them find in you harshness. And know that Allah is with the righteous.

    47.4:  So when you meet those who disbelieve [in battle], strike [their] necks until, when you have inflicted slaughter upon them, then secure their bonds, and either [confer] favor afterwards or ransom [them] until the war lays down its burdens. That [is the command]. And if Allah had willed, He could have taken vengeance upon them [Himself], but [He ordered armed struggle] to test some of you by means of others. And those who are killed in the cause of Allah - never will He waste their deeds.

    By Ashok Sharma - 3/14/2017 12:45:00 PM



  • can this point view explain the centrality of dawah in islam? dawah would have been superfluous if all religions are acceptable.

    it might then have lent more credence to 'la ikra'a  fi din'. but then again another issue would be with 8.39.
    **http://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=8&verse=39**

    if all religions are acceptable (to whom?), the statement of the prophet about fitrah could have been - every child is born in a state of fitrah, then his parents make him into a jew, christian, magian or muslim.

    but the fact that this statement ends without the word 'muslim', has some hints.

    perhaps what the prophet (probably) had in mind was that 'muslim' is the natural state of newborns, but their parents make them into non-muslims i.e, jew, christian or magian.

    this would then better fit with 3.85.
    **http://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=3&verse=85**
    By hats off! - 3/14/2017 6:04:54 AM