is a continuation of my discussion in comments:
By Naseer Ahmed - 2/4/2019 2:49:19
By Naseer Ahmed - 2/7/2019 2:21:36
from my discussion of the Prophetic mission in four phases, it should be clear
that the end result was not a certainty but became so only when the Mushrikin
ganged up and besieged Medina with an intention to annihilate Islam and the
Muslims. It was only at this stage, that it became Allah’s responsibility to
complete the Prophetic mission with complete military victory of the Muslims
over their enemy. This meant that all four phases would be completed and with
it the deen of Allah, and therefore, Muhammad (pbuh) could be declared the seal
of the Prophets. Before this, if the Mushrikin had agreed to desist from religious
persecution and agreed not to hinder Muslims from the path of Allah, it would
have been back to 109:6 “To you be your religion and to me mine” and
peaceful co-existence which may or may not have lasted. If peace had lasted the
lifetime of the Prophet, then he would not have been the seal of the prophets
since the deen would have remained incomplete. This discussion underlines the
createdness of the Quran.
scholarship without exception, however, takes a deterministic view, which is
why they struggle with verses such as 109:6, “To you be your religion and to me mine”. Javed Ghamidi, a
well-known moderate says:
" The last verse
of the Surah, it must be appreciated, is not an expression of tolerance; it
expresses renunciation on the part of the Prophet (sws) and a warning to
the disbelievers that they must now get ready to face the consequences of
their obdurate denial."
he is saying effectively, is that 109:6 does not mean what it says but is a
veiled warning of “wait and see now what we do to you”! This is because in a
deterministic view, war with the Kafirin and their annihilation is inevitable,
and therefore 109:6 cannot mean what it says. The deterministic view makes
Islam an immoral religion of deceit
they have the same problem with:
to the kafaru, if (now) they desist (from religious persecution), their past
would be forgiven them; but if they persist, the punishment of those before
them is already (a matter of warning for them).
twist is as follows:
(8:38) Say to the kafaru, if (now) they desist (from disbelief and accept
Islam), their past would be forgiven them; but if they persist, the punishment
of those before them is already (a matter of warning for them)
(8:39) And fight them on until there is no more religious persecution (fitna),
and there prevail fully the deen of Allah; but if they cease, verily Allah doth
see all that they do.
fight them on until there is no more “shirk”, and all worship is for Allah only;
but if they cease, verily Allah doth see all that they do.
is because, in a deterministic view, what was possible was only what took place
and nothing else. Any other scenario is unthinkable and therefore the verses that
appear to be offering a real choice, are “interpreted” in such a manner, as to remove
all choice from them.
thrives for the same reason. The deterministic view moves only in one direction
and cannot go back to a previous state and therefore, the Meccan verses are
treated as abrogated! As a matter of fact, these are not even thought to have
meant what they mean!
getting the attribute of Al-Qadr right, has turned a moral religion into an
immoral one. The question then is which god do we worship? The moral one or the
immoral one? That is the difference it makes when we understand correctly or
not, the important attributes of Allah.
Can GM sb explain how literalism can be
He is the dumb literalist who has failed
to understand the meaning of
"(2:7) Allah hath set a seal on
their hearts and on their hearing, and on their eyes is a veil; great is the
penalty they (incur).
And when I explained that in terms of
the laws of human behaviour, he called it inventive!
So, isn’t GM sb who is both dumb and a
Empty claims of a windbag full of nonsense!
(4:76) Those who believe fight in the
cause of Allah, and the kafaru Fight in the cause of Evil: So fight ye against
the friends of Satan: feeble indeed is the cunning of Satan.
GM sb is the one who is the kafaru, a friend of Satan, questioning a
major part of the Quran, character assassinating the Prophet and losing all his
He has become the Abu Lahab on this forum.
I have discussed earlier, the nature of the “perfect and complete”
religion of Allah. The essential requirement for revealing such a religion was
that the Prophetic Mission was required to be in the following four phases.
The peaceful propagation phase.
The Prophet becoming a ruler for legislative verses to be revealed
Covering just wars
Dealing with the vanquished people in victory
Without these four phases, the revelations would have been incomplete. Did
Allah know then that the religion would be completed and perfected with Muhammad
(PBUH) even before the revelations began in 610 CE and that Muhammad would be
the seal of the Prophets? Not with 100% certainty unless all the subsequent
events are pre-determined, and no one had any choice to do anything except what
they did. Such pre-determination absolves all those who opposed the Prophet,
persecuted and fought wars of any blame. Nothing was therefore pre-determined.
The possibilities that such a mission would not have been the last are:
Kafirin had left the Muslims alone and not persecuted them and heeded 109:6 “To
you be your religion and to me mine”. The Prophet then would have preached
peacefully, and not migrated and not fought the wars against the Mushrikin.
Without active opposition by the Kafirin, a large number may have accepted
Islam making it the dominant religion. Eventually, all may have accepted Islam.
The Prophet may have even become a ruler and the legislative verses revealed.
Any war then would have been with an external aggressor but without any preceding
oppression. This would have been a normal war and not a religious war. The Deen
would have remained incomplete to be completed with a later prophet or
Kafirin had heeded (8:38) Say to the kafaru, if (now) they desist
(from religious persecution), their past would be forgiven them; but if they
persist, the punishment of those before them is already (a matter of warning
for them) after the Battle of Badr and agreed to cease religious
persecution. The Prophet would then have returned to Mecca and resumed peaceful
3. In the Battle
of Uhud, the Kafirin were successful which made them bolder and a point of no
return was near at hand. In the battle of the Trench they returned with a great
force and laid a siege to Medina itself to annihilate Islam and the Muslims. The
point of no return had been reached and the end-game could only result in
victory of the Muslims over the enemy thus completing the four phases of the
mission required to lay down a complete and perfect religion. It is only at
this stage, that we find a revelation saying that Muhammad is the seal of the
Prophets in verse 33:40. This verse was revealed in 627 CE or 5 AH either
during or after the Battle of the Trench when it became clear that all the
phases would be completed with this Prophet alone. The verse is perfectly
timed. If it had been revealed right at the beginning of the mission, it would
have meant that all the following events were pre-determined, and no one had
any choice in what they chose to do. If
it had been revealed before the Battle of the Trench, it would have meant that
verse 8:38 did not make a real offer of ending of hostilities if the kafaru
ceased their religious persecution. This is not the case.
This discussion is also to make clear that in what Allah gives man the
freedom to choose, He cannot know with 100% certainty what he will choose, and
if He knew with 100% certainty what man would choose, then it is
pre-determination and not autonomy. Without real autonomy, there is no ground
to judge the deeds of man. Mankind therefore enjoys real autonomy albeit in a
limited way. In the areas in which mankind enjoys autonomy, we need to blame ourselves
for the evil that we ourselves create.
Continuing the attributes of Allah, there is the Divine Plan
of Allah which no one can change, and Allah achieves whatever He plans to
achieve through both the good and the evil people. The good earn rewards for
their deeds and the evil their punishment.
On what does not affect the Divine Plan, man achieves
whatever he strives for as per the laws decreed by Allah, and Allah does not
intervene unless we pray to Him for His help. Bad things can happen by random
events such as accidents, but if these were prevented by Allah, then there is
no learning and no effort to make things safer. We pray for Allah’s
intervention to save us from harm from even random events and the prayers work.
We unnecessarily blame Allah for the misery and injustice in
this world. That is our doing and not Allah’s. The question is of autonomy.
Greater autonomy means a greater capacity for both good and evil and lesser
autonomy mean lesser capacity for both good and evil. Allah has given man a
certain degree of autonomy based on what man himself asked for, and if we utilize
it more for evil than good, then it is we who are to blame and not Allah.
Muslims who believe in pre-determination but not in autonomy
are under achievers for obvious reasons. They do not take responsibility for
what is happening to them and attribute everything to Allah as if they have no
freedom of action. Some of our ways that harm us are:
The misuse of “Inshallah”. Surah Kahaf teaches
us saying “Inshallah” but the context there was direct dependence on Allah for
revelation and therefore, not saying Inshallah, was taking Allah for granted.
If what we promise is contingent on someone else doing something, then we
should make a promise that is contingent on the other doing what is expected of
him, is the lesson. However, our use of Inshallah makes Allah a party to all
our promises when Allah is neither going to prevent us or help us, and the
matter is entirely in our hands, barring Force Majeure. That Force Majeure excuses
us is understood even if we do not mention it. There is therefore no need for
saying “Inshallah”. The worst part is that we say “Inshallah” even when there
is no intention to do what we promise and we conveniently pass on the blame to
Allah. The overuse and misuse of Inshallah has made us unreliable in our
False humility. For example, ending a long
discussion with “Allah knows best”. If you do not know enough, why speak about
it? Has Allah failed to communicate clearly for us to know exactly what we need
to know on the subject? Saying “Allah knows best” is not going to save us from
our mistakes and we better be careful about what we say. It is not pleasing to
Allah when we say “Allah knows best” as we are saying that Allah did not make
the matter clear enough for us to understand.
Allah is the only One that is uncreated and all else is created by Allah,
everything created by Allah, is exactly what Allah wants it to be. Allah is the
one with infinite choices and out of the infinite choices that He has, he has
created a finite Universe with unchanging laws. The act of creation is through
the word of Allah and either we agree that Allah has infinite choices or agree
that He has no choices when we say that the word of Allah is uncreated. If
Allah’s word is uncreated, then He has no choice, and everything is as it
should be. This raises the question, where is the need for any Allah then if
everything is as it should be?
correct answer is that Allah is the epitome of morality and of having infinite
choices and He has chosen the Universe to be exactly as per His Will. The act
of creation is not a single act either but a continuous one. The word of Allah
is therefore both Qadeem and Jadeed. If it is only Qadeem, then Allah was
required only in the past and His work is over. Do not therefore try to make
Allah dumb by saying His kalam is uncreated and only Qadeem.
the Rationalists who enjoyed political patronage earlier and said that anyone who
said that the Quran is uncreated is a kafir and put Imam Hanbali in prison for
saying that it is uncreated. The Rationalists lost political patronage eventually
because they lacked popular support and were really speaking, the atheists of
their times. So, when the traditionalists came back, they declared that anyone
who said the Quran is created is a kafir because the argument of createdness of
the Quran was being used to change its meaning. This was a fitna and the only
way the tradionalists could think of fighting it was to take the position that
the Quran is uncreated. While doing so, they ignored that taking such a position
contradicts the Quran. The greater fitna is always in taking up a false
position for whatever reason and is not justified even to fight another fitna. The
correct answer as I have already explained, is that it is both created,
unchanging and unchangeable. It contains the complete and perfected Deen of
about Allah’s attribute of All-Knowing, Allah knows all that He chooses to
know. His attribute of Al-Qadeer also only means that He decides what he will
control and what He will not control but allow mankind to have autonomy. So,
does Allah know at our birth whether we will go to Heaven or Hell? He does not
know that because He has chosen not to pre-determine this ultimate fate of ours
but chosen to give us the freedom to choose our path. There is no real choice
if Allah knows at our birth how we will choose and therefore Allah chooses not
to know how we will choose or in other words, give us real autonomy.
predict another person’s behaviour knowing him well and since Allah knows us
even better, He is certainly able to predict far more accurately, but never
with 100% certainty. If He had 100% certainty, then we are without a real
choice and that makes it impossible and immoral for God to judge us on what is
not in our control. At a certain stage in our life, if we have reached a point
of no return in our path, then of course He then knows our fate of Heaven or
Hell, but still not how we will act from transaction to transaction, in which
we are given freedom by Allah.
we can manipulate people knowing them well and make them do what is our will,
God can do that even better. Although man is given autonomy in a limited field in
which he has complete freedom of choice, yet Allah, through His intimate
knowledge of us, can achieve His purpose by manipulating both the good people
and the evil people to accomplish His will. If evil befalls us, it is because
Allah had not willed it otherwise, or did anything to prevent it, but allowed
it to happen. If Allah wills that no evil will befalls us, it won’t, even if
all the evil forces gang up.
What is certain
is that Allah always achieves His divine purpose irrespective of whether the
people are acting for or against His purpose. Allah’s purpose and Will can
never be defeated. What the good and evil achieve for their efforts is therefore
rewards or punishment without making an iota of difference to whatever Allah Wills
to accomplish. So, better be good rather than evil, because, in any case, we
make little difference to the outcomes in His Divine scheme.
(3:54) And the plotters plotted and schemed, and
Allah too planned, and the best of planners is Allah.
everything is part of the Divine scheme and our efforts make a difference in
such other matters which do not disturb the Divine plan. It is futile only to
fight against Allah but our efforts bear fruit in all other matters exactly according
to the efforts made. The misunderstanding of these two attributes of Allah make
the Muslims fatalistic, believing that everything that happens to them was
pre-determined by Allah at birth. This is untrue. Man was created to struggle
and strive, and our efforts bear fruit. The Deen is to know how not to go
against Allah’s purpose but be aligned with it. The efforts that are blessed
are therefore those that are not in opposition to Allah’s purpose but in
accordance with it, or at least neutral to it.
The Kalam of Allah is
produced by Allah. Allah Himself says in the Qu'ran:
(10:37) This Qur´an
is not such as can be produced by other than Allah; on the contrary it is a
confirmation of (revelations) that went before it, and a fuller explanation of
the Book - wherein there is no doubt - from the Lord of the worlds.
The Quran has all the properties of a Book produced by Allah
and is therefore created. Only Allah is uncreated, and the rest are His
creation. To say, that Allah’s word is uncreated is to say that everything is
as it should be, and nothing could have been different. In other words, a
universe different from what exists, is unimaginable. If everything is as it should
be, then what is the role of Allah? There isn’t even a logical necessity for
His existence and the atheists are proved right.
This debate of created/uncreated began when the Mutazilla or
the rationalists began to argue that the Quran is created according to and is
defined by its historical context and must therefore change with the times. The
response to this was that it is uncreated and therefore unchangeable. The
correct answer is – yes, it is created and also unchangeable as I have brought
out in my article:
the Reformist Scholars Cannot Make a Difference
The relevant portion is
The Flawed Argument of
Context by Reformist Scholars and the Rationalists
historical context important to a revelation? It certainly is for progressive
revelations. Allah has taken mankind forward progressively from the earliest
times time when man did not even have the concept of right and wrong to a stage
when mankind was ready to receive the “perfected and complete religion” from
Muhammad (pbuh), the last and the seal of the prophets. This was a stage in
civilisational development, when the worth of the Deen of Allah (moral
principles of religion), had become evident through practice over the ages, and
therefore clear from error (Quran 2:256). Once the perfected and complete
Deen (Quran 5:3) was delivered, there cannot be further improvement to it or
The flaw in the argument is
in the assumption that lessons on the eternal principles cannot be delivered
through a context. No matter what the context, eternal principles remain
unchanged and any given context is only incidental, but part of the deliberate
methodology of experiential learning followed by the Quranic revelations.
The context is to elucidate but not to define the message itself. It is
therefore erroneous to believe that the Deen of Islam would have differed if
the context of the revelation was different. No, the context or the process of
elucidating the message would have been different but the Deen would have
remained the same.
If you believe otherwise
like the reformist scholars and the Rationalists, then you are saying in effect
that Allah did not “perfect and complete his religion” and that religion can
never be perfected/completed since it must continue to change with the times.
You also reject in effect the argument of Muhammad (pbuh) being the last and
the seal of the prophets because who else but a prophet can guide us afresh
according to the changed times?
What is possible however is
that the traditionalist approach is flawed, and they have misinterpreted the
Quran and their mistakes need to be corrected. It is also possible to throw out
the traditionalist approach completely if it is full of errors and adopt a more
robust methodology to the study of the Qur’an.
Does Religion Shape Our Values, Or Do We Change The Religion
According To The Changing Values?
Man did not know right from wrong. It is religion which has
exclusively given us the criteria of right and wrong and each one of our
ethical and moral principles. The moral/ethical domain has exclusively belonged
to religion and not even one of our moral principles has come from outside of
religion or outside of Divine Revelation. It is therefore preposterous for the
reformist scholars to suggest changing the religion according to the changing
values. If the values have come from outside of religion then religion was
unnecessary in the past and if the values from religion are inappropriate in
today’s world, then the religion has outlived its utility and must be
abandoned. The claim of the Quran that the Deen is perfected and complete is
then proven false (Nauzobillah).
Is this however the case? Far from it as we shall see.
Surah Ar-Rahman is a good beginning to try to
understand the attributes of Allah. Allah is neither a creator of evil not does
He have negative attributes. Read the following verses. What you may think are
negative are also described as the favours of Allah or His positive
contribution. What Allah does is good or contains, destroys or prevents evil. All
His attributes and contribution are therefore positive or anti-negative, but
(55:35) On you will be sent (O ye evil ones twain!)
a flame of fire (to burn) and a smoke (to choke): no defence will ye have:
(36) Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye
(37) When the sky is rent asunder, and it becomes
red like ointment:
(38) Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye
(39) On that Day no question will be asked of man
or Jinn as to his sin.
(40) Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye
(41) (For) the sinners will be known by their
marks: and they will be seized by their forelocks and their feet.
(42) Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye
(43) This is the Hell which the Sinners deny:
(44) In its midst and in the midst of boiling hot
water will they wander round!
(45) Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye