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Books and Documents

Islamic Ideology

17 - COMMENTS

  • If Naseer sb. had any valid arguments to make he would not have any need to call me names such as " shallow windbag".

    Naseer sb. asks me to show how his arguments are unsubstantiated and arbitrary. I had already done so, but here it is again for his perusal:

    "He says, "the Quran abrogates the war related verses in the previous scriptures." - This is a lie. It is Naseer sb.'s invention. The Quran does not abrogate  anything in any previous scripture. Does lying about what the Quran says make Naseer sb. an apostate? No, it just makes him a charlatan!

    "Naseer sb. maintains that there is less compulsion in Islam than in earlier religions. This is false. Absence of compulsion means tolerance of apostasy. Judaism, Christianity and Islam are all intolerant of apostasy. The Quran says, "The works of those from among you who turn back from their faith and die in a state of disbelief shall be vain in this world and the next. These are the inmates of the fire, therin shall they abide."(2. 218).

    "Naseer sb. says, "The Quran confirms a part of what was revealed in the previous scriptures and omits that which is abrogated." - If something is omitted in the Quran does that mean it gets abrogated from  the Bible and the Torah? Where does Naseer sb. get such wild ideas? He continues to praise the war verses in the Quran and waxes eloquent over their superiority to the war verses in the Bible and the Torah! All these comparisions are made up in his mind only in the service of his doctrine of superiority of Islam. Such ideas of superiority are not only stupid, they are dangerous.

    "Naseer sb.'s lengthy argument with Shehzad Saleem is truly a comic opera. It is a totally vacuous diatribe without any substance, without any evidence and without any usefulness! His pretensions to such knowledge is no less than a prelude to his assumption of a sub-prophethood!"

    Please be relevant and precise in your reply. Thanks.

    By Ghulam Mohiyuddin - 3/17/2019 1:47:20 PM



  • The shallow windbag GM sb once again uses an adjective "unsubstantiated", without substantiating his charge. He cannot substantiate it because whatever I have said in the article is well-substantiated.
    The objective of the article is clearly to wean away the classical scholars from the errors of their ways in using abrogated paradigms to misinterpret the Quran.
    The mischief monger that GM sb is, he wants people to see it as an attempt to discredit the previous scriptures which is far from my intention as the previous scriptures are also from the same Allah and served Allah's purpose.
    By Naseer Ahmed - 3/17/2019 2:19:16 AM



  • What Naseer sb. calls his "exposition of the religion of Islam" is nothing but an unsubstantiated and fraudulent narrative designed to appeal to those Muslims who like to see Islam as the apex atop a mountain of religions. But most progressive Muslims do not play such one-up-man-ship games and cherish Islam as one of several paths to goodness and morality. Such a broad-minded attitude leaves supremacist mullahs like Naseer sb. out of business.

    By Ghulam Mohiyuddin - 3/16/2019 1:56:27 PM



  • GM sb has a collection of adjectives which he uses indiscriminately. He is nothing but a windbag full of nonsense. There is nothing arbitrary about the article. 
    If there is anything arbitrary, what prevents him from proving that it is so? 

    His "forays in this forum have had the sole purpose of being disruptive, derisive and rude".

    He is happy with the traditional/extremist version because then this apostate can attack Islam. My exposition of the religion of Islam leaves him with little scope to attack it. That is why this apostate goes into such  uncontrolled seizures and rage attacks.

    By Naseer Ahmed - 3/16/2019 2:33:12 AM



  • You are not going to demolish any misinterpretations with your arbitrary inventions!

    By Ghulam Mohiyuddin - 3/15/2019 6:09:33 PM



  • What is it that upsets GM sb so much about the article? Clearly he favours the misinterpretations that fuel extremism and is against all my attempts to demolish such misinterpretations. 
    The vile hypocrite!
    By Naseer Ahmed - 3/15/2019 3:20:31 AM



  • Naseer sb. is under the delusion that he has proven that Islamic scholars were guided by Old Testament war verses and not by the supposedly advanced Quranic war verses. He seems to be proud of his own phony arguments with Shehzad Saleem, which Mr. Saleem wisely ignored. Naseer sb. also adds, "All Classical Islamic scholarship, including the moderates such as Javed Ghamidi and Maulana Waheeduddin Khan, look at wars of the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH), through the Judeo-Christian paradigms, which are totally irrelevant, since the Quran completely abrogates all previous verses on war, and replaces them with fresh guidelines which are very different."

    All such argumentation is just hot air. There is no substance in it. War verses are not going to make us better human beings nor are they going to make wars more humane, irrespective of whether they came from the Old Testament, the New Testament or the Quran. The idea that one set of war verses abrogates another set of war verses is a figment of Naseer sb.'s imagination. Verse 4:48 is clear to everybody, but not to Naseer sb.! Comparing the verses of different scriptures is something that can be done by true scholars with deep understanding, not by a charlatan like Naseer sb. We should do the same thing with him that Shehzad Saleem did, just ignore Naseer sb.

    By Ghulam Mohiyuddin - 3/14/2019 12:52:51 PM



  • Are you literally blind that you cannot see the evidence cited in the article of one of the most moderate Islamic scholars quoting the OT to misinterpret the Quran? Or are you dumb? By Naseer Ahmed - 3/14/2019 2:29:57 AM



  • Naseer sb.'s contention that the classical Islamic scholars and the ISIS scholars follow the Old Testament paradigms is his own invention. There is no evidence to support that. It is obvious that they quote and believe in the Quranic paradigms. Quranic injunctions can be ambiguous. One can derive both the good and the bad meaning from them. And yet you continue to advocate blind adherence to every word in the Quran and you want to blame the Bible and the Torah for the misdeeds of the jihadis! When will you stop inventing such lies?

    By Ghulam Mohiyuddin - 3/13/2019 12:21:35 PM



  • GM sb is an ignoramus and a fool. This article brings into focus the fact that even the most moderate among the classical scholars relies on  Old Testament paradigms of interpretation and this goes for the remaining scholars also. All of them quote from previous scriptures when it suits them.

    The ISIS may hate the Christians but they do not hate Jesus and the Bible, they may hate the Jews but they do not hate Moses and the Torah.

    The article is focused on the real issues and it is GM sb the windbag who is focused on non-issues and in digressing.

    The blame is on those who continue to follow the abrogated scriptures and not on these scriptures or on their followers as already made clear in the article. 

    GM sb is trying to put a spin as I had predicted.
    By Naseer Ahmed - 3/13/2019 2:47:04 AM



  • Naseer sb. again shows his depravity, calling me an apostate, instead of addressing the issues. This is his way of hiding his hollowness. 

    He brings in the Old Testament in an attempt to explain the atrocities and religious intolerance  of ISIS! Have the ISIS mullahs ever quoted from the Old Testament? Don't they hate the scriptures of the Jews and the Christians? You call them "abrogated", and they just ignore them. So what is the difference? Is Islam any better off  putting all blame for all evils on the Jewish and Christian scriptures? God save us from mullahs like Naseer sb.!

    By Ghulam Mohiyuddin - 3/10/2019 2:06:21 PM



  • GM sb is asking us to forget about ISIS, war etc. He is made uncomfortable by my attack on the ideology that fuels it. He therefore discounts it and ridicules it.
    Are the wars  in the OT a figment of imagination?
    Are the verses from OT a figment of imagination?
    Are the verses from the Quran a figment of imagination?
    Are the genocidal wars of Christianity for several centuries even after the Quran was revealed wiping out indigenous populations a figment of imagination?
    Is the barbarity, slaughter and orgies of blood post victory by the Christian crusaders a figment of imagination? 
    Is religious intolerance practiced by Christendom until their renaissance a figment of imagination?
    Is the lack of such barbarity and orgies of blood post victory by Muslim armies a figment of imagination?
    Is religious tolerance and lack of forced conversions by Muslims a figment of imagination?
    GM sb is an open apostate who denies a major part of the Quran. The rant of the apostate continues.
    By Naseer Ahmed - 3/10/2019 12:01:13 AM



  • Naseer sb.'s attempt to see a big difference in the war verses in earlier scriptures and the Quran and their impact on pre-Islamic and post-Islamic wars is a bunch of wishful thinking on his part and a figment of his imagination. All his thinking centers on Islam's superiority over Judaism and Christianity, but he keeps denying it! Why can't he talk about the virtues of Islam and forget talking about wars? Let those ISIS guys talk about war. Let us talk about peace, reconciliation, kindness, gentleness, co-existence and brotherhood of mankind. But Naseer sb. would much rather call me an apostate and several other names, because he is basically a liar and a smearer.

    Naseer sb. grossly exaggerates the impact of his critique of Shehzad Saleem's book. I don't think anyone read his critique. As I remember it, Mr. Saleem refused to engage Naseer sb. in a discussion, saying that he was busy with his work. Mr. Saleem was being polite. What he probably meant was that he had no time to answer a pretentious and unhinged nobody.

    By Ghulam Mohiyuddin - 3/9/2019 12:09:03 PM



  • My articles may have had the desired effect. As pointed out by Shaheen sb, the Book  is no longer available on their website. 

    A more honest and straightforward  acknowledgment of having made a gross mistake will go a long way in establishing the truth and destroying the false beliefs that are playing havoc with our lives.
    By Naseer Ahmed - 3/9/2019 6:29:48 AM



  • There are many like you GM sb, who also believe that the war related verses in the earlier scriptures are not abrogated.  For example the ISIS who treated the Yazidis in the manner of previous scriptures that has nothing to do with the Quran. Also, the crazy ideas of Ghazwa-i-Hind have no support in the Quran but find full support in the paradigms of the previous scriptures.
    Such people have become a menace to all mankind and must be wiped out.
    Nobody is compelling you to be an apostate. That is your choice. To punish an apostate in the Hereafter is Allah's choice. How is that a concern for the apostate who does not believe in Allah and the Hereafter?
    By Naseer Ahmed - 3/9/2019 4:12:42 AM



  • The interesting part is that there is no other prophetic mission earlier, that is comparable to the prophetic mission of Muhammad (pbuh). The wars waged by the ruler prophets and their followers such as Moses, Joshua, David, Solomon, Saul, Ehud, Othniel etc., did not follow the three phases described in the Book. The wars were simply based on  – submit or get destroyed. There was no propagation, acquittal and judgment phase. The book weaves a fictitious story to make acceptable the conclusions of the authors. The following is a sampling of the wars from the OT.


    Num 21:1-3

    Canaanites

    Won

    ‘The LORD listened to Israel’s request, the Canaanites were defeated, and Israel completely destroyed them and their cities.”‘ (v3)


    Num 21:21-35(Deut 3:1-6)

    Amorites, Bashan

    Won

    ‘The LORD said to Moses, “Do not fear him, for I have handed him over to you along with his whole army and his land.”‘ (v34)

    Num 31:1-8

    Midianites

    Won

    ‘The LORD spoke to Moses, “Execute vengeance for the Israelites against the Midianites. After that, you will be gathered to

    Josh 6

    Jericho

    Won

    Direct commands from God, and miraculous destruction of the walls

    Josh 7:1-12

    Ai

    Lost

    God says the reason for loss is that Israel had kept the plunder from Jericho against God’s command (vv11-12)

    Josh 8:1-24

    Ai

    Won

    After fixing the plunder issue, God commands Joshua to attack and gives strategic commands (vv1-8, 18)

    Josh 10:1-13

    Amorite kings

    Won

    God says that he will defeat them, throws them into confusion, then sends hail storms. The stun stands still until the battle is finished. (v8-13)

    Josh 10:28-43

    List of cities conquered

    “Joshua captured all these kings and their land in one campaign, because the Lord, the God of Israel, fought for Israel.” (v42)

    Josh 11:1-23

    Large coalition of kings, followed by various victories.

    Won

    “The LORD handed them over to Israel” (v8)”For it was the LORD’s intention to harden their hearts, so that they would engage Israel in battle, be completely destroyed without mercy, and be annihilated, just as the LORD had commanded Moses.” (v20)

    Judges 1:1-5

    Canaanites and Perizzites

    Won

    “The LORD handed the Canaanites and Perizzites over to them” (v4)

    Judges 1:8-2:3

    List of battles and land taken, and nations that Israel failed to drive out

    Mixed

    “The LORD was with Judah and enabled them to take possession of the hill country, but they could not drive out the people who were living in the valley because those people had iron chariots.” (v19)”Therefore, I now say: I will not drive out these people before you. They will be thorns in your sides, and their gods will be a trap to you.” (2:3)

    udges

    Battles labelled ‘Cycle’ are cycles which involve Israel forsaking God, God specifically handing Israel over to be defeated by an enemy, Israel returning to God and then God acting to rescue them.

    Judges 3:8-10

    Aram

    Cycle

    God raises Othniel. The Spirit of the Lord is on him (vv9-10)

     

    Judges 3:12-30

    Moabites, Ammonites, Amalekites

    Cycle

    God raises Ehud. (v15) He told them, “Follow me, because the LORD has handed over your enemies, the Moabites, to you.” (v28)

     

    Judges 3:31

    Philistines

    Cycle?

     

    Judges 4

    Canaanites

    Cycle

    “The LORD threw Sisera, all his charioteers, and all his army into confusion with the sword” (v15). “That day God subdued Jabin king of Canaan before the Israelites.” (v23)

     

    Judges 6-7

    Midianites

    Cycle

    The LORD said to Gideon, “You have too many people for Me to hand the Midianites over to you, or else Israel might brag: ‘I did it myself.'” (7:4). Army reduced to 300 men (7:7), God sends the Midianites into a panic and they attack each other (7:22).

     

    Judges 9:22-57

    Shechem

    Won

    “God sent an evil spirit between Abimelech and the lords of Shechem. They treated Abimelech deceitfully, so that the crime against the 70 sons of Jerubbaal might come to justice and their blood would be avenged on their brother Abimelech, who killed them, and on the lords of Shechem, who had helped him kill his brothers.” (v23-24) Abimelech is killed (v56)

     

     

    Judges 20

    Israel vs Benjaminites

    Civil War

    God directs order of battle and gives them victory (20:18, 23, 28).

     

    Judges 21

    Jabesh-Gilead

    Civil War

    1 Sam 4:1-11

    Philistines

    Lost (Cycle?)

    The elders of Israel asked, “Why did the LORD let us be defeated today by the Philistines? Let’s bring the ark of the LORD’s covenant from Shiloh. Then it will go with us and save us from the hand of our enemies.” (v3) Lost the next battle and lost the Ark.

    1 Sam 7:3-11

    Philistines

    Won (2nd half of Cycle?)

    “The LORD thundered loudly against the Philistines that day and threw them into such confusion that they fled before Israel” (7:10)

    The Monarchy

    1 Sam 11:1-11

    Ammonites

    Won

    “When Saul heard these words, the Spirit of God suddenly took control of him, and his anger burned furiously.” (11:6)

    1 Sam 13-14

    Philistines

    Won

    Saul initiates battle, but needs Samuel to sacrifice to God’s for his favour. Samuel does not come for 7 days. Saul offers sacrifice instead.Samuel said to Saul, “You have been foolish. You have not kept the command which the LORD your God gave you. It was at this time that the LORD would have permanently established your reign over Israel, but now your reign will not endure.”(13:13-14)Jonathan said to the attendant who carried his weapons, “Come on, let’s cross over to the garrison of these uncircumcised men. Perhaps the LORD will help us. Nothing can keep the LORD from saving, whether by many or by few.” (14:6)”The earth shook, and terror from God spread.” (14:15) “So the LORD saved Israel that day. ” (14:23)Jonathan breaks Saul’s oath, which results in a failure to completely defeat the Philistines (14:37-46)

    1 Sam 15

    Amalekites

    Won

    God commands Saul to attack (15:2-3). Saul wins, but fails to destroy the flocks. God rejects Saul.

    1 Sam 17

    Philistines

    Won

    God gives David victory over Goliath (17:37, 45-47)

    1 Sam 18:1-19:8

    List of victories for David

    God is with David (18:14)

    David vs Saul

    1 Sam 23:1-5

    David vs Philistines

    Won

    David asks God whether to attack, God says yes, “for I will hand the Philistines over to you.” (23:1-4)

    1 Sam 27

    David vs Geshurites, Girzites and Amalekites

    Won

     

    1 Sam 30

    David vs Amalekites

    Won

    Raiders took his people. David asks God, who tells him to attack (30:7-8).

     

    1 Sam 28-29, 311 Cron 10:1-14

    Saul vs Philistines

    Lost

    God refuses to respond to Saul, Saul gets medium to summon Samuel who says God give victory to Philistines (28:19). Philistines win and Saul is killed.

    David’s Reign

    1 Chron 11-12

    List of warriors and battles

    References to the Spirit guiding warriors, and God giving victory.

    2 Sam 2-4

    David vs Benjaminites

    Civil War


    By Naseer Ahmed - 3/9/2019 2:37:38 AM



  • Another arbitrary article from Naseer sb.!

    He says, "the Quran abrogates the war related verses in the previous scriptures." - This is a lie. It is Naseer sb.'s invention. The Quran does not abrogate  anything in any previous scripture. Does lying about what the Quran says make Naseer sb. an apostate? No, it just makes him a charlatan!

    Naseer sb. maintains that there is less compulsion in Islam than in earlier religions. This is false. Absence of compulsion means tolerance of apostasy. Judaism, Christianity and Islam are all intolerant of apostasy. The Quran says, "The works of those from among you who turn back from their faith and die in a state of disbelief shall be vain in this world and the next. These are the inmates of the fire, therin shall they abide."(2. 218).

    Naseer sb. says, "The Quran confirms a part of what was revealed in the previous scriptures and omits that which is abrogated." - If something is omitted in the Quran does that mean it gets abrogated from  the Bible and the Torah? Where does Naseer sb. get such wild ideas? He continues to praise the war verses in the Quran and waxes eloquent over their superiority to the war verses in the Bible and the Torah! All these comparisions are made up in his mind only in the service of his doctrine of superiority of Islam. Such ideas of superiority are not only stupid, they are dangerous.

    Naseer sb.'s lengthy argument with Shehzad Saleem is truly a comic opera. It is a totally vacuous diatribe without any substance, without any evidence and without any usefulness! His pretensions to such knowledge is no less than an prelude to his assumption of a sub-prophethood!


    By Ghulam Mohiyuddin - 3/8/2019 12:41:20 PM