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Books and Documents

Islam and Pluralism (22 Jul 2010 NewAgeIslam.Com)




TOTAL COMMENTS:-   8


  • Lee - The PIG, since now you have got the attention that you wanted; you have started speaking bit sense. And since I knew you the moment I deciphered your psychology, knew it well that you would be tamed by an equally noisy reply.

    Having got enough attention, some created by you and as you desired in your mind if possible some by somebody else too, be that even in form of protest, that now you are getting coherent. I just accelerated the process. You got happy, and bargained to be called PIG for that. Not a big deal for you, you were ready to hear name calling in exchange of being heard. Same you have been trying to do elsewhere too and for that reason you have created websites etc. but were facing identity crisis. Here, however small readership it is, you are getting audience, reader, I mean, and attention. 

    Interestingly, I too have an agenda. I will continue calling you PIG whenever I wish to, but don't mind that, (and how would you, you bargained for that) that only grabs your attention and other reader's over here. You too will listen to my replies, else you would have simply ignored those. I am doing the same as you do, and this tactics works well. Nothing irritates people with limitation as your's more as showing them the mirror. 

    Forget your website, stay here, and hear replies. I am on this website for that only. To reply to people who talk sense but who hold deep seated prejudice, and I know well what to reply when encountered with the scene some PIG like you come up and create. I am not here to listen to you, this you too must have understood by now. Hate-mongers indeed deserve to be hit back, by words for words, by bullets for bullets. 


    By sadaf -



  • Manzurul Haque

    You have made many presumptions, and stated more negative things towards me than I have towards you.

    I also mention the persecution of Shia Muslims and Ahmadiyya Muslims, after all, just like Christianity, you have many divisions within both Islam and Christianity.

    What did Islam do for Afghanistan or Pakistan?

    Yes, it turned once Buddhist and Hindu areas into a backward and hate filled nation.

    No progress, just backwardness.

    Pakistan was secular and you had hope but now this nation is tearing itself apart and you have no enlightenment in killing people for blasphemy; or shouting for the death of writers; or introducing draconian laws against women under Taliban ruled areas.

    Muslims have greater freedom in America and India; than they do in Afghanistan and Pakistan.  Why?

    You see, people are not killing Shia Muslims or Ahmadiyya Muslims in America or India; yet in Afghanistan and Pakistan you have elements within Sunni Islam which desires a monoculture which is based on hatred and Sunni Islamic power.

    No religion is perfect, no ethnic group is perfect, no nation is perfect; no society is perfect; after all, drug problems can be found in Afghanistan and America alike; yet some societies offer more hope and this is because of secularism and the need to provide religious freedom.

    However, many Islamists want freedom in non-Muslim nations; however, what about freedom for other faiths in mainly Muslim lands?

    http://www.pakistanchristianpost.com/viewnews.php?newsid=1641 (killed in the name of blasphemy in Pakistan)

    Lee Jay Walker

    http://leejaywalker.wordpress.com


    By Lee Jay Walker -



  • Dear Mr. (Johny) Walker (?) , what I write, you should take as a comedy, if you can afford to. It will be chivalrous.

    There are many Hindu writers and intellectuals who are writing sense. The thrust of what you write is to vent out your hatred against Muslims and Islam. You can check it from your refined, non-atheistic Hindu brethren. If you have been an unemployed writer or journalist, please do not blame the establishment. See Swapn Dasgupta. Very often he writes extremely powerfully to defend the Hindu position but he never emits vileness, because that is not required also. So if you have been ignored despite all your efforts at blogging, it is precisely because nobody on this earth has stomach to digest your kind of vileness.  Your comments are totally out of tune with the spirit of this article, below which you have dropped your comments.

    You are praising West, as if it is your creation. Where do you and your forefathers stand? But probably you don’t have this chain in your life with your lack of social identity. Well I praise China and Japan too. But how the hell does it relate to you and me. Then you disparage Muslim countries and Islam, as if you have a divine right to take them to task and I am answerable for all Muslim countries.  But in all this you come out as one who has extreme hatred for all Muslims. This then concerns me. I am apprehensive of a rabid hate-monger like you. With this hateful attitude I am afraid you can take to terrorism if you are already not one. But I suggest you a course of action if you are courageous too and believe in your convictions. If you are against all these Muslim countries, then you should join hands with all those Muslim activists who are trying to throw away their corrupt and inefficient regimes and establish Islamic systems in their respective countries like Iran’s (the nearest will be Taliban for you).

    All non–European countries including the countries of erstwhile Red Indians and Aborigines have suffered immensely at the hands of Europeans but we are certainly in awe of the rise and technological contributions of the Whites.  There are many Whites however (like one GRAIL in Germany and two or three similar communities in USA) who do not believe in these parameters of progress, and that way they look so much closer to the naturalness and otherworldliness of Islam.

    Having understood your credentials, I don’t consider it necessary to educate you on the context, meaning, validity, and purpose of Bukhari's Hadiths (Not Quran) you have quoted,  which relate to the contextual incidents of the initial period of consolidation of a religious revolution. All explainable,  but no need.

    I am giving you a mirchi of thought as a parting gift: Peaceful expression and communication of an idea, or a religious idea (Dawah work) or a political idea or a sociological idea, or a philosophical idea or a legal idea or even a scientific idea (like Galileo’s) is the inherent Human Right of a man and must be respected by all human beings.


    By Manzurul Haque -



  • Dear Lee sick stupid liar (now onwards Lee SSL). It is the Islam and the Muslims that compel you to be here in the forums discussing matters related to Islam and Muslims. Deny this now, denier. If not then it is your hatred for them that makes you come back again and again here and poke your nose here even though it gets bloodied every time. The charm of Islam is not easy. It has made mad many, including you. Because at one hand it Islam talks of peace, at the other hand, it does not stop to thwart attempts of 'Fitna' like you. If you and people like you are getting killed, then you yourself are good enough example for why they are getting killed. Provoke and get killed. This is universal law. Islam asks to not kill someone just for provoking, but are ordinary mortals so ideal made that they keep control of themselves. Islam teaches wisdom, but they don't listen. Same is true for you to. Islam teaches you to not provoke, but since you do not heed to, so it would be no surprise that you would be killed. Question is, should you be killed, Islam clearly says NO, for mere provocation, NO. Yet is not Islam that will pass a judgment that you be killed, but rather, ordinary individuals, adhering a bit here and there to Islam, or not at all, or even absolute stranger to Islam, too may come ahead to kill you, if you keep provoking. One example that you see is that as you believe that Jihadist provoked America, just see, what is happening to Jihadist. Similar would happen to you, if you provoke. If you were such a peace lover, you would not have broken this universal law, but since you are not, you may face the consequence. You will be hated and you may get killed. If you don't, someone you’re near and dear will pay the price on your behalf. But Remember Islam has got nothing to do with this. It is universal, and the ongoing American war is an example. America was provoked. Now they are killing. If Muslims would be provoked, they would kill. They would kill doesn't mean they would be correct in doing so, but where is the matter of who is correct and who is wrong. You may continue braying and berating that Muslims are killers, but so what? Would they stop hearing your braying?

    Once America has used Atom bomb, what guarantee is that it won't be used on them? The only guarantee is their wisdom to not provoke any further. They would be heeding to Islam by doing that. Not doing that, not heeding to the wise words, will make them pay. Same is applicable to Muslims. But as things are, there are Muslims who are in nothing to loose situation except their life and faith, so they are quite dangerous for people like you. Be wise, and take care of yourself well. Already, Taliban has returned back as a force to reckon with, and NATO chief was made a scapegoat to be unable to handle the situation so he was removed. Pakistan is already turning getting more and more Talibanised. And they even have Nuclear weapons. And interestingly, whatever pressure America made, nothing worked to stop Pakistan from acquiring Nuclear weapon. Iran too is on verge to declare any day, and you have Obama as head, who as per you clearly in appeasement mode for Muslims. American and European stalwarts with their wisdom failed to predict the economic bust, now what do you expect more from them. On the other hand, China and India are such a strong emerging market that now your West may not remain anymore the West with superlatives. So any chance of you, staying filthy rich in future too, is no more. So basically, nothing is working in your favour Lee- (SSL). Why not instead of putting three lettered SSL for you, I put PIG, instead. Lee-the PIG. Your braying like Ass is your frustration of all these. . Indians already have started buying your industries and by now all Steel has slipped away from the hands of West and Middle East is becoming day by day a land of prosperity. They have bought almost all of your casinos at Las Vegas. Where are you sleeping Lee? Lee, the PIG.

    At personal level, you are unable to handle just me alone with all your might of rubbish copy paste items. You are basically promoting yourself and your rubbish website but stupid as you are, instead of me going to your website, it is you who are here. And you will not be able to take away anything from here. You will get only sick man’s pleasure, here. And as for your website, see below mentioned website and also go for the TV channel that I mentioned to you for more such pleasure.  http://www.peacetv.in/

    And yes don’t forget that Islam is getting more and more popular in America and such is the travesty of fate of Islam-haters like you, Lee, The PIG. 


    By sadaf -



  • Manzurul Haque.

    You should stick to comedy, you have more famous universities in the UK and USA than in all the mainly Muslim countries in this world.

    Pakistan, a land of hatred and where Muslim fanatics slaughter fellow Muslims and of course they kill minorities like the Christians.

    Nearly all modern science is Western; and what does Islam have to offer; yes, kill the apostates, kill people for blasphemy in Pakistan, stone raped women to death in Somalia, and so forth.

    Islam and backwardness go hand in hand and the more a nation is Islamized the worse they become; this is why Turkey is the beacon, and not a great beacon, but at least they have secular law and greater chance for women; however, they still like to kill Muslim Kurds and destroy their culture via pro-Turkish policies.

    You can only converse via the internet because of the West.

    People from all over the world want to study in America and the UK; do you think that people from all over the world want to study in Afghanistan, Pakistan, and so forth.

    Anyway, Muslims in India should look to democracy, the guidance of Hinduism, and the rich non-Muslim history of this nation; Muslims in Pakistan and Bangladesh have to face the wrath of Islamization, backwardness, persecution of women, and so forth.

    Pakistan, like Egypt, relies on Western economic aid; yes, the dhimmis are supporting Muslims because Muslim nations can not develop open democracy and freedom of thought and freedom for women.

    Lee Jay Walker

    http://leejaywalker.wordpress.com

     ---

                                            NOTHING TO SAY ABOUT THIS?  I WONDER WHY?

     

    "The article is very interesting, however, it negates the reality of what Mohammed himself did.

    It is clear that in Arabia during the time of Mohammed that you had Christian Arabs, Jewish Arabs, and Pagan Arabs.

    When Mohammed was weak, he states a more diplomatic note towards other faiths, after all, he borrowed heavily from Jewish Arabs and Christian Arabs.

    However, once Mohammed obtained power; then it all changed."Apostasy is punishable by death.

    • Mohammed said, "Whoever changes his Islamic religion, kill him." Vol. 9:57

    A Muslim must not be killed if he kills a non-Muslim.

    • Mohammed said, " No Muslim should be killed for killing a Kafir" (infidel). Vol. 9:50

      Ethnic cleansing is practiced.
    • Mohammed said to the Jews, "You should know that the earth belongs to Allah and His Apostle (Mohammed) and I want to expel you from this land (The Arabian Peninsula), so, if anyone owns property, he is permitted to sell it." Vol. 4:392

    • Mohammed's last words at his deathbed were: "Turn the pagans (non-Muslims) out of the Arabian Peninsula." Vol. 5:716  

     


    By Lee Jay Walker -



  • This Lee jay Walker is posing as a Westerner but he is actually someone from India, deeply steeped in fanatic anti-Muslim disruptive ideology. I had suspected all along but,  we on this website have given him a convincing demonstration that West may have any aura before other cultural groups, it can never measure up to Islam and so the Westerners themselves or those drawing inspirations from them have little chance  to undermine  the Muslims.

    Now when an attempt is being made by different intellectuals and groups to establish peace between communities in this beloved country of ours, this hate-monger has started singing the tune of hatred. Be careful readers. This is a poisonous rodent.


    By Manzurul Haque -



  • The article is very interesting, however, it negates the reality of what Mohammed himself did.

    It is clear that in Arabia during the time of Mohammed that you had Christian Arabs, Jewish Arabs, and Pagan Arabs.

    When Mohammed was weak, he states a more diplomatic note towards other faiths, after all, he borrowed heavily from Jewish Arabs and Christian Arabs.

    However, once Mohammed obtained power; then it all changed.

    Mohammed stated the following:

    Islam is to be imposed by force.

    • Mohammed said, "I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, "None has the right to be worshipped but Allah, and whoever says, " None has the right to be worshipped but Allah , his life and property will be saved by me." (otherwise it will not). Vol. 4:196

    Apostasy is punishable by death.

    • Mohammed said, "Whoever changes his Islamic religion, kill him." Vol. 9:57

    A Muslim must not be killed if he kills a non-Muslim.

    • Mohammed said, " No Muslim should be killed for killing a Kafir" (infidel). Vol. 9:50

    Ethnic cleansing is practiced.

    • Mohammed said to the Jews, "You should know that the earth belongs to Allah and His Apostle (Mohammed) and I want to expel you from this land (The Arabian Peninsula), so, if anyone owns property, he is permitted to sell it." Vol. 4:392

    • Mohammed's last words at his deathbed were: "Turn the pagans (non-Muslims) out of the Arabian Peninsula." Vol. 5:716  

     

    Therefore, if Arabia was multi-religious during the early years of Mohammed; then it is clear that all other faiths would soon become persecuted and laws would be enshrined to divide people between the victor (the Muslim) and the dhimmi (the infidel, according to Islam).

    It is clear that Mohammed persecuted the Jews and the Pagans, and after the death of Mohammed all Christian Arabs in Arabia would face the same religious cleansing.

    Even today, in the land of Mecca and Medina, you do not have one single Christian church or Buddhist temple or Hindu shrine or Ahmadiyya Mosque, and even Shia Muslims face major discrimination in Saudi Arabia.

    Never mind multi-culturism; Arab women are not allowed to drive cars in Saudi Arabia or enter shopping centres which may be mixed; therefore, how can multi-culturism thrive is such harsh and draconian conditions?

    Multi-culturism is complex; and you have problems all over the world, irrespective if Europe, Asia, Africa, North America, or South America.

    However, look at modern day Pakistan and the ongoing destruction of Hinduism; look at modern day Somalia and the ongoing massacres against Christians; look at the ongoing destruction of Buddhism in the Chittagong Hill Tracts in Bangladesh; and so on.

    The Baha'is, Shabaks, Yazidis, Ahmadiyya Muslims, and others, only face persecution at the hands of Muslims in the early 21st century, why?

    If Mohammed supported mulit-culturism, then he would have protected the Pagans, Jews, and Christians of Arabia; but clearly he started their demise and the Islamic sword was taken to the Pagans and Jews during the lifetime of Mohammed.

    Many ordinary Muslims may support multi-culturism; many ordinary Buddhists may support multi-culturism; however, did Mohammed support multi-culturism given the fact that he destroyed cultures within his own lifetime?

    Lee Jay Walker

    http://leejaywalker.wordpress.com


    By Lee Jay Walker -



  • This is an excellent report from Mr.Sikand on a conference titled Islam, Muslims and Multiculturalism . I agree with Prof.Tariq Ramdan who said that it was not enough for Muslims and others just to talk and listen to each other, but it was also necessary to be open to the possibility of changing and growing as a result of the dialogue.

    I was also impressed by Ustaz Fatris Bakaram, Deputy Mufti of Singapore, who, critiquing scripturalist and legal literalism, argued that numerous fiqh rules on relations with people of other faiths needed to be subjected to ijtihad or creative reasoning and re-interpretation in a contextually-appropriate manner in order to promote inter-community and inter-faith relations. This, he cautioned, was not a means to discard scripture, unlike what some Muslims might claim, but, rather, to re-read the scripture in today’s context in ‘an enlightened manner’. It was not tantamount to abandoning the shariah. Rather, it was a plea to realize the underlying aims of the shariah, which included justice, equality and friendly relations with others, in a contextually-sensitive manner.


    By Ghulam Mohiyuddin -