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Islamic Ideology (17 Oct 2013 NewAgeIslam.Com)


Muslim Separatism is Un-Islamic

 

 

By Maulana Wahiduddin Khan

October 17, 2013

In many non-Muslim majority countries, Muslim groups are fighting for independence in areas where Muslims are in a majority. This is happening, for instance, in Kashmir, Southern Philippines, Southern Thailand, Chechnya, Sinkiang, and so on. Muslim groups living in these areas consider the non-Muslim states they are fighting against to be illegal occupying forces. Much blood has been spilled in the course of these conflicts, but no there has been no positive fall-out at all. These conflicts have only made the situation worse for all concerned parties, including, and especially, these Muslim groups themselves.

Sometimes, the justification given for these violent conflicts aiming at separation or independence is that non-Muslim majorities are allegedly destroying the Islamic identity or culture of these Muslim minority groups.  Hence, it is claimed, their demand for independence is Islamically-legitimate in order to preserve their faith and Islamic identity.

This politics of separation which Muslims are engaged in in different countries is, however, totally un-Islamic. It has nothing to do with the Islamic teachings. In Quranic terms, it is called Muzahat (9:30), that is, imitation of non-believers. Politics of this kind is derived from a modern concept called ‘self-determination’. According to modern political theory, ‘self-determination’ is the right of a nation or people to determine its own form of government without influence from outside, or, in other words, the right of the people of a given area to determine their own political status. It is this political concept that Muslims have sought to induct into Islam.

It is totally wrong to claim that any particular country or nation is trying to destroy Muslim culture, and so to use this as a justification for violent conflicts in the name of self-determination is unacceptable. In the modern world, everyone is free to adopt their own culture. I have travelled all over the world, and I can say that I have never found any country where efforts are being made to destroy the Muslims’ identity. It is an entirely wrong allegation.

Sometimes, Muslim minorities’ struggle for independence and separation from a non-Muslim majority state is sought to be justified by claiming that these states are, in a very well-planned way, working to reduce Muslims in Muslim-dominant ‘occupied’ regions into a minority. Hence, it is argued, it is Islamically-legitimate to seek separation and independence from non-Muslim-majority states.

This argument, too, is completely wrong. Islam never enjoins upon Muslims to establish a separate state or to strive for political independence. According to Islam, the political system is a matter of social conditions. It is social conditions that determine the political system. It is quite un-Islamic to launch a movement for the establishment of a political system based on some self-styled model.  It is also wrong to say that any particular country is planning to reduce areas of Muslim-majority into Muslim-minority territories. To launch violent struggles to separate from existing states is intolerable for every country, even for a Muslim country. So, what is happening in Sinkiang (in China), or Arakan (in Myanmar) or in other such places where people are being killed in large numbers in the wake of violent movements for separatism is only the price that Muslims are paying for their wrong policies. What these countries are doing is as defence and not as offence.

I repeatedly stress the importance of Dawah for Muslims. The Muslims’ duty in every part of the world is only one, that is, Dawah work, inviting people to God’s path. Muslims must do peaceful Dawah work, and leave all other things upon God. Dawah is a binding Islamic duty. Dawah, naturally, demands close interaction with people of other religions—and excellent and very natural opportunities for this exist in countries where Muslims live with people of other faiths. In this regard, when many Muslim ethnic groups in various non-Muslim-majority countries demand separation and independence (as indeed many Indian Muslims did in demanding Pakistan in the years leading up to the Partition), they are themselves harming prospects for Dawah, because in the Muslim-only countries that they want to have, free of non-Muslim presence, the opportunities for Dawah would naturally be much less than if they lived as minorities in non-Muslim majority countries.

The politics of separatism is a killer for Dawah culture. Dawah requires universality and tolerance, while separatism kills the universal spirit. This kind of policy is a political innovation. It has nothing to do with Islam. In this regard, it is very instructive to note that Sufis generally did not have this sort of ghetto mentality, and, instead, actively sought to interact with and even live among non-Muslims. And they played a very important role in Dawah.

The Sufis were right. They rightly presented Islam before non-Muslims. Those who are against Sufis are not so because of any justification from Islam, but because of their own self-styled thinking. They try politicizing Islam, and due to this mindset they do not appreciate Sufism. The political and cultural separatism that they advocate makes these people a major barrier to Dawah work.

In other words, this tendency of Muslim separatism is greatly inimical to Dawah, and hence not Islamic. This sort of separatism, both political and cultural, is wrong. Islam does not enjoin these kinds of separatist policies. This politics of separation is a sin, and not a virtue. And due to this, Muslims are being deprived of God’s help. Thus, everywhere their activities are proving to be counterproductive as they are against the Divine scheme of things. Muslim leaders were successful in creating Pakistan, but after sixty years of its creation, Pakistan is a failed state because it did not receive God’s blessings.

How does one account for this marked tendency to Muslim separatism across the world? Sometimes it takes the form of wanting a separate, Muslim-only or Muslim-majority country. When this is not possible, then it sometimes takes the form of Muslim ghettoism, with Muslims wanting to live in Muslim-only spaces, to have social interaction only among themselves, as far as possible, to send their children to Muslim-only schools, to make friends only with Muslims, and so on.

What is the reason for this? The answer to this is that in the modern age, Muslims have developed a wrong concept of identity, and they want to preserve this so-called identity of theirs. Thus, they have become extremely identity-conscious. It is because this unnatural identity-consciousness that they are making ghettos everywhere: ghetto country, ghetto colony, ghetto institutions, ghetto society, etc.

The contemporary Muslim separatism is a new phenomenon. It has nothing to do with Islam. The fact is that in the 19th and 20th centuries, Muslims adopted a political policy that was un-Islamic and unrealistic. Thus, it naturally failed. It is this failure that has led to a defeatist mentality among Muslims. Present-day Muslims are living with this defeatist mentality. And, it is this defeatist mentality that has given rise to the phenomenon of Muslim ghettoism.

But unlike what some Muslims may believe, there is no sanction for this in Islam. You cannot find a single reference for this in the Quran or Hadith. Also, you cannot find any example of this kind of politics in the biographies of the Prophet (peace be upon him) and in the accounts of the lives of the Sahaba, the Prophet’s Companions. 

Some Muslims might think that this sort of ghettoism and separatism, whether cultural or political, is justified in the name of the unity of the global Muslim Ummah and Muslim brotherhood. But this is false. In fact, this kind of separatism has created more differences among Muslims. For example, Pakistan was founded in the name of Muslim unity. But now in that country, Muslims are fighting among themselves. In India, we are living in peace, while in Pakistan Muslims are living with fear and amidst violence. This is the case of all those pockets where Muslims have established their “ghetto lands”.

Maulana Wahiduddin Khan heads the New Delhi-based Centre for Peace and Spirituality.

URL: http://www.newageislam.com/islamic-ideology/maulana-wahiduddin-khan/muslim-separatism-is-un-islamic/d/14018

 




TOTAL COMMENTS:-   351


  • It blows my mind that anyone wants to hurt Islam by bringing up Mutah. No,

     <a href="http://twelvershia.net/2015/02/12/prohibition-mutah

    -marriages/"> mutah</a>

     is not permissible!


    By MJLondon - 4/1/2015 5:21:58 AM



  • Good Evening Hats Off,

     

    Your comrade’s verdict after going through some of my writing is that none other than Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia is a “Toddler.” Now you know why we the “Moderate Muslims” are concerned about Mr. Rational’s irrational comments in this particular thread.

     

    In any case, it will surely be interesting to read your comments. As a brilliant and educated person, I am more than confident that you are not going to “Devalue” a person’s worth.

     

    One more thing, at the time of a tragic “Boston Marathon Bombing,” I wrote a letter titled “Living Wisdom. The response received from my Christian and Jewish friends were as follows:

     

    From: A Christian Friend
    Sent:
    Tuesday, April 23, 2013 8:16 AM
    To: Rafiq Lodhia
    Subject: Re: “LIVING WISDOM”

     

    Rafiq, I appreciate so much you writing with such strength and pain.  While I am sad that

    this is true, it is probably necessary that solid, heartfelt Muslims like you who understand a broader outlook on what Peace means must speak out.  It would be understandable to me if you wanted to grieve alone over what these young men (and others) have done or do in the future.  Yet the strength and quality of your words make it clear their actions do not speak for your faith or life.  

     

    Now for me, I already knew that.  One of the best ways to tear down walls of suspicion and contempt is to know others.  Knowing you has shown me repeatedly the heart of a good man with great dreams, dreams of godly honor, character, and a desire to see the truth and purity of God win out.  So when I see sorrow-filled situations like Boston or the news of Canada, I make no blanket assumptions that people such as those stand for Islam.  The reason?  I know Rafiq, the man of character and heart, who longs for God's truth, goodness, and purity to reign. 

     

    Keep that spirit growing within yourself.  And within your wonderful children.  And keep seeking His will for your life.  The best to you.  

     

    From: A Jewish Friend

    Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2013 9:26 AM
    To: Rafiq Lodhia

    Subject: RE: "LIVING WISDOM"

     

    Dear Rafiq,

     

    I am always humbled when I read your emails and it is reassuring to know that the voice of reason and compassion can be just as loud and influential as the voice of terror.  We just need more people like you to use their voice!

    All the best,

     

    Again, thank you for reading (if you in fact are doing it?), and as such, I want you, Mr. Secular Logic, and your other friends to engage in striving to make any debates on New Age Islam forum an enlightening one so that we all can learn from one another. There is absolutely no point in tearing apart another person’s religion using all the foul languages. It is uncalled for and it should always be avoided. Am I right or wrong, Mr. Hats Off?

     

    Very sincerely yours, - rafiq@thelodhiacenter.org

      


    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 10/31/2013 8:24:22 AM



  • Good Evening Mr. Rational,

     

    Grown Up.” These two words are very much soothing to hear from a person who has thus far been making irrational and rude comments.

     

    It is obvious that anything “Good” that is written does not penetrate your mind which was created by (who)? You rejected faith and your sole aim is to do all you can to write against Islam and our beloved Prophet Muhammad (Peace Be Upon Him).

     

    Well, if this be the case, then did anyone taught you to be “Respectful” of other religions? Now that is not a sign of a “Grown-Up” man, or is it? Let’s be specific Mr. Rational and answer to the point, please.   

     

    Have a good night. – rafiq@thelodhiacenter.org

     


    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 10/31/2013 7:10:13 AM



  • Mr Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 10/30/2013 9:25:01 PM
    In this comment of yours there is nothing important which can be taken seriously.
    just waiting for your promised comment.
    for me to do good i need no Allah/Bhagwan/God. so i am grown up and you are still a toddler.
    By rational mohammed yunus - 10/31/2013 12:01:58 AM



  • Good Morning Mr. Rational,

     

    Copies to: Hats Off, Mr. Secular Logic, Mr. Harsh & Vivek

     

    I sure do not know your real identity, nevertheless, I shall await yours and Mr. Hats Off’s reaction before I prepare my rebuttal.

     

    Lately, I have been busy with my work. I will continue to read comments on this particular thread that are posted by you and your comrades. I must honestly admit that some of the remarks are mind boggling. It does gives us Muslims more insight about what people think about our religion of Islam. It is very much apparent that attacking “Islam” has become a fashionable thing to do in order to impress upon others.   

     

    We, the “Moderate Muslims” do have enough common sense in case you are not aware. We do know how to differentiate between the good versus the bad. The main problem is that neither you nor Hats Off has a slightest clue as to what is written by “My Fellow Muslims. I say, wise up, Mr. Rational. It is not too late. What is more baffling is that, if you have given up on Islam, then why are you on a hate campaign?

     

    May I ask you, “Are your parents and relatives still Muslims?” What is your problem with Islam other than you simply have not been able to understand the message of our Holy Quran? If you do not like it, then why bother? Why not mind your own business and/or the new religion which you must have embraced by now?     

     

    Respectfully yours,

     

    Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia

     


    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 10/30/2013 9:25:01 PM



  • Good Morning Hats Off & Mr. Rational,

     

    Copies to: Mr. Secular, Mr. Harsh & Vivek

     

    Meri Desh Premiyo,

     

    Hope this brief note will find you and your colleagues in good spirits.

     

    Well, before I prepare my rebuttal, I want you and your friends to catch the glimpse of my

    writings. Though I am not a scholar, however, I am a self-made man who has managed to learn the lessons of life from listening, reading and acting upon “Wisdom Of The Elders.”

     

    For now, after being on New Age Islam for a little over a week, and going through the absolute nightmare of rude remarks  ……………….      

     

    A DEEP DISTRESS HATH HUMANIZED MY SOUL.”

     

    http://myfellowmuslims.org/

     

    Check out “Rafiq’s Letters” which is on top. All those letters have been accumulated for the past ten years. On reading these letters, you might well be able to know the real mindset of

    “Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia.”

     

    Have a blessed Diwali festival. “The Lodhia Family” wishes you, your dear friends and your beloved family members, a very happy, healthy and prosperous New Year.

     

    May Bhagwaan bless all the humble and honorable citizens of India.

     

    Kind personal regards,

     

    Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia

     


    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 10/30/2013 9:02:41 PM



  • Dear Rational,visit this:
    http://www.answering-christianity.com/sam_shamoun_rebuttals.htm
    First you refute point by point then I will refute that loser Shamoun. 

    By Truth - 10/30/2013 4:15:09 AM



  • thanks mr rational mohammad yunus,
    i am really glad you decided not to get provoked. that really is a very important thing form me. i am sure you this routine. if you sense a feeling of rising anger, take slow deep breaths. exhale slowly, counting as you do. it works for me. i hope it does for you too.

    By hats off! - 10/30/2013 3:14:45 AM



  • Truth. have pure desimasala. you may enjoy it.
    Responses to Osama Abdallah's site
    ‘Answering Christianity’
    http://www.answering-islam.org/Responses/Osama/

    By rational mohammed yunus - 10/30/2013 3:10:29 AM



  • Dear hats off. I have read silly answers of this Osama Abdallah on many sites.
    mr truth has given mail exchanges between two Muslims to prove his point. let him screech in full voulme.

    By rational mohammed yunus - 10/30/2013 3:06:43 AM



  • deat hats off.
    Lets see how Mr Truth refute the link, i have provide here. I removed many my own words attached to this link in order to not get provoked keeping your advice in mind.
    we are waiting for the response of Mr Lodhia which will kill us for forever.



    By rational mohammed yunus - 10/30/2013 3:00:33 AM



  • dear mr rational mohammad yunus,
    some one is trying to provoke you. if you get provoked, he has won and you have lost.

    please keep cool and chillax!

    By hats off! - 10/30/2013 2:39:21 AM



  • @Truth
    Visit it. calling somebody filthy speaks about your own filth. you arespeaking the language of a jehadi talibani.
    your disgust against the Sam Shamoun is nothing but comes from your Islamic upbringing.

    http://www.sufismus-online.de/WhoIsTheMushrik
    By rational mohammed yunus - 10/30/2013 2:33:30 AM



  • Truth in fact Untruth

    If you are left with some truth refute the link i provided line by line as Mr mohammed yunus demand from me.
    for you i have another desimasala(indian spice). please wait.


    By rational mohammed yunus - 10/30/2013 2:22:48 AM



  • Rational has taken the name of the filthiest missionary on this planet. I have personally heard him use **** words so many times and you believe this person... Read this, I am copy-pasting from a site. 

    Sam Shamoun's Cowardice and Foul Mouth:

    Recently, we have smashed Sam Shamoun's filthy character by awarding him the toilet trophy for his outstanding excessive foul mouth and callings for gay-rape and many other documented toilet things that exist both in his head and in his section on this site.  Seemingly not being able to take the public humiliation any longer, the christian snake have finally unmasked his real ugly face and true colors by not only giving us more foul insults, and more low-life manners and obnoxious attitude, but quite surprisingly he even backed away from his very own debate challenge on "Is Muhammad a true Prophet?" from brother Sami Zaatari.

    You see, recently, brother Sami have schooled this missionary infidel very well on trinity and exposed it for him as no more than an invented lie by man that originated from the Romans' and Hindus' pagan religions, and that it really has no basis whatsoever even in his bible, the book that is filled with countless contradictions and corruption as most ironically, even its own theologians admit so.  Fearing that he might get exposed and schooled again, especially after our recent devastating rebuttals to all of his points on the subject of Prophet Muhammad, all Peace, Mercy and Blessings be upon him, the pornified snake decided to call it quits and never dare to debate this topic ever again, but not before giving us more insults and obnoxious street-thugs and low-life attitude that is filled with hate against GOD Almighty's Divine Truth, Islam, and all of GOD Almighty's True Believers from among the Muslims.  The following are the email correspondences with comments and elaborations from me:

    (a)-  Sam Shamoun runs from debating his favorite topic:

    Brother Sami's email:

    From: "sami z" <sami-zaatari@hotmail.com>

    To: quransearch_com@yahoo.com, b_zawadi@hotmail.com, Islam_defender@hotmail.com, just_flow11@hotmail.com, islamttd786@yahoo.com, sam_shmn40@hotmail.com, jk@answering-islam.org

    Subject: Debate: Is Muhammad a True Prophet?

    Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 00:23:13 +0000

    salam and peace to all! well almost a year ago me and shamoun agreed to 2 debates, Is Jesus God? and, is Muhammad a true Prophet. we have done debate one, and now i think it is a good time to do debate 2 which is is Muhammad a true prophet.

    the debate format will be the same as last time, 2 min opening, 4 min back and forth for 2 hours. i am ready to do this next satuday 8 pm new york time, 1 am london time, 4 am makkah time, and 5 am uae time. :)

    i have one stipulation only that the room we debate in is my room this time, i will not be admin, umar and bassam and osama will be, we debated the christian topic in your room, hence we shall debate the Islamic topic in our room, we shall not dot at all unless the F word is used, B word, and all other swear words. critisism is accepted as thats the point of the debate so we accept that, we dont accept swearing, and this is for me as well. i wont debate unless its not in our room. fair is fair.

    the debate will take place on paltalk offcourse in social issues.

    Sam Shamoun's response:

    From: "sam shamoun" <sam_shmn40@hotmail.com>

    To: sami-zaatari@hotmail.com, quransearch_com@yahoo.com, b_zawadi@hotmail.com, Islam_defender@hotmail.com, just_flow11@hotmail.com, islamttd786@yahoo.com, jk@answering-islam.org

    Subject: RE: Debate: Is Muhammad a True Prophet?

    Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 15:58:22 +0000

    Sami,

    You agreed to debate on Muhammad's teaching on Muta, so we are going to stick with that. Let me know when you are ready so I can get the material up

    for the debate. And you don't decide all the rules beforehand, we need to talk about the time format and the room etc. I hope this is not a sign of you trying to pull out and save face. We will see with your compliance or lack thereof.

    My comments:

    Notice right off the bat, this missionary is not only running from the debate, as he is further exposed on below, but he also threw in a ridiculous comment "I hope this is not a sign of you trying to pull out and save face" which was not only off, but also deliberately deceptive.

    And as to the topic of Muta, we have thoroughly exposed him on this subject at: Does Islam allow Muta?

    Brother Sami's response:

    From: "sami z" <sami-zaatari@hotmail.com> 

    To: sam_shmn40@hotmail.com, quransearch_com@yahoo.com, b_zawadi@hotmail.com, Islam_defender@hotmail.com, just_flow11@hotmail.com, islamttd786@yahoo.com, jk@answering-islam.org

    Subject: RE: Debate: Is Muhammad a True Prophet?

    Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 16:38:31 +0000

    wrong, i told you we will debate whether the prophet Muhammad is a true prophet, if you want to bring muta up go ahead, but i am not going to make a 2 hour debate on muta since i never agreed to debate muta alone specifically, again i said i would debate is the prophet Muhammad a true prophet, so if you wanna bring muta up as one of the arguments to disprove his prophethood then thats fine. and that is the debate we agreed to debate last year, so i want to get this 2nd debate done.

    and again, i will not debate if it is not in our room, last time i debated in your room, this time you in ours, this is a very easy stipulation for you to meet since the debate is going to be recorded so we cant dot you since if we did we just look bad.

    what format do you want? 20 min openings and so on? well ppl on paltalk will not follow along, and neither will most ppl at home, 4 mins each back and

    forth is the best option since it helps ppl understand whats going on since its all step by step.

    Sam Shamoun's response:

    From: "sam shamoun" <sam_shmn40@hotmail.com> 

    To: sami-zaatari@hotmail.com, quransearch_com@yahoo.com, b_zawadi@hotmail.com, Islam_defender@hotmail.com, just_flow11@hotmail.com, islamttd786@yahoo.com, jk@answering-islam.org

    Subject: RE: Debate: Is Muhammad a True Prophet?

    Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 16:45:00 +0000

    You are starting to lie, and I expected you would back down. You contacted me in pm and told me you wanted to debate with me and I said I want to debate Muhammad's teaching on Muta. You agreed and said to give you two weeks and I gave you over a month. Just recently I even told you to bring Bassam to help you debate on the issue of Muta and you told me to bring Jochen and Silas.

    I knew by your delay you were trying to back out, and I don't blame you for doing that in light of our last debate.

    Anyway, the topic will be whether Muhammad's Muta is a form of prostitution since I want the world to see the kind of teachings you guys are trying to

    defend and the kind of man you want people to believe in.

    So I expect that your next email will be an acceptance of our original agreement so we can move on from there and arrange the date and time format since I have an article being prepared for this topic. Don't be another Nadir and make excuses to run away.

    So Sami, please stop wasting my time and let's get this debate on. If not, then please don't waste my time with any more emails. I won't respond to anymore emails from you unless it is an agreement to debate Muta.

    Sam

    My comments:

    Notice the rude manners and lies: "You are starting to lie, and I expected you would back down."  And again, as to the topic of Muta, we have thoroughly exposed him on this subject at: Does Islam allow Muta?

    Also, notice that brother Sami never objected to debating the topic of Muta.  And the reason why he is insisting on having the debate in our room is because the last time brother Sami and the foul-mouthed missionarydebated on trinity, the latter kept throwing foul insults which were all recorded in the debate and you can listen to them along with the entire debate at brother Sami's section.  So obviously, brother Sami wants to eliminate this loser's chances to foul-insult Islam and the Muslims again.

    Brother Sami's response:

    From: "sami z" <sami-zaatari@hotmail.com>

    To: sam_shmn40@hotmail.com, quransearch_com@yahoo.com, b_zawadi@hotmail.com, Islam_defender@hotmail.com, just_flow11@hotmail.com, islamttd786@yahoo.com, jk@answering-islam.org

    Subject: RE: Debate: Is Muhammad a True Prophet?

    Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 16:51:16 +0000

    i should have saved the conversation, i pmed you saying im ready to debate next month which is now ABOUT THE PROPHETHOOD OF MUHAMMAD, and you agreed we will debate the topic and that you would bring muta up, but since this is a 2 hour debate this can be one of your arguments, but i want to smash

    every other argument you have one by one. stop chickening out, notice what a chicken you are, i am saying lets debate is Muhammad a prophet, and

    that you can your muta argument up AND MANY OTHER ARGUMENTS! i never agreed to debate muta alone hence i am not going to debate this to alone, but i will debate the broad topic of is Muhammad a true prophet, so either you stop wasting my time or accept the debate challenge we BOTH AGREED TO LAST YEAR and LAST MONTH when i said it in plane bold english words that i want to debate the prophethood of Muhammad, you can bring muta up to disprove it and many other arguments, dont back down plz because debating and smashing you on muta alone is not satisfying for me, i want to smash you on prophecies,

    aisha, zayd, and every other argument you have so plzzzzzz accept the topic which you made! how ironic you made this topic last year!!!!!!!! so accept the

    challenge IS MUHAMMAD A TRUE PROPHET, bring up muta, aisha, zayd, right hand captives, war, false propchecies or any other new argument you have.

    My comments:

    pmed means personal messeged you.

    Sam Shamoun's response:

    No response.

    Brother Sami's follow-up email:

    From: "sami z" <sami-zaatari@hotmail.com>

    To: sam_shmn40@hotmail.com, quransearch_com@yahoo.com, b_zawadi@hotmail.com, Islam_defender@hotmail.com, just_flow11@hotmail.com, islamttd786@yahoo.com, jk@answering-islam.org

    Subject: RE: Debate: Is Muhammad a True Prophet?

    Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 18:05:04 +0000

    well is the debate gonna happen? is Muhammad a true prophet, saturday, paltalk, lets do it, i will make a debate challenge publicly to you as well

    on osamas and my site, i dont want to let you escape from this fav topic of yours WHICH YOU MADE LAST YEAR i crushed you on divinity of jesus, and

    now i will do so in this topic, dont back down and be scared. next saturday, 10 pm new york time, just say yes and lets go.

    Sam Shamoun's response:

    No response.

    Brother Sami's follow-up email:

    From: "sami z" <sami-zaatari@hotmail.com>

    To: sam_shmn40@hotmail.com, quransearch_com@yahoo.com, b_zawadi@hotmail.com, Islam_defender@hotmail.com, just_flow11@hotmail.com, islamttd786@yahoo.com, jk@answering-islam.org

    Subject: RE: Debate: Is Muhammad a True Prophet?

    Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 18:24:19 +0000

    wowwwwwwwww i forgot SHAMOUN YOUR ON TAPE (during the trinity debate) SAYING LETS DEBATE IS MUHAMMAD A PROPHET, lol in our first debate! your on tape saying lets do it, but offcourse we couldnt debate then since your swearing your head off, but now we can since things have kooled down, so therefore you ARE ON TAPE about this topic we agreed on, therefore you must debate this topic since you made it and are on tape affirming it. :) you have no chance but to debate

    this now, if you dont, your a coward and backing down. thank you. its all up to you now, dont bother replyng back if you dont say yes.

    My comments:

    During their trinity debate, the foul-mouthed missionary - as I said above - kept throwing foul-insults at brother Sami, me personally and Islam which left us with no choice but to leave.  But during the debate, he did make ample remarks about wanting to debate "Is Muhammad a true Prophet?" next.

    Sam Shamoun's response:

    No response.

    Bassam Zawadi's email:

    From: "BASSAM ZAWADI" <b_zawadi@hotmail.com

    To: sami-zaatari@hotmail.com, sam_shmn40@hotmail.com,

    quransearch_com@yahoo.com, Islam_defender@hotmail.com,

    just_flow11@hotmail.com, islamttd786@yahoo.com, jk@answering-islam.org

    Subject: RE: Debate: Is Muhammad a True Prophet?

    Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 20:41:54 +0000

    Sam I am suprised that you are not agreeing to this debate. Usually you would love to bring out all these arguments that you have against Muhammad peace be upon him. I don't understand what you are trying to accomplish with this Mut'a thing? If you want to speak about immorality in Islam, then lets be fair and also give us the right to speak about the immorality in the Bible. At the end of the day, the topic will be useless. Because its only subjective arguments and emotions being thrown in. Muslims believe that Mut'a was a practice allowed and THEN PROHIBITED. Muslims used to drink and get drunk and the Prophet didn't condemn them. Why? Becuz it was NOT PROHIBITED YET. Same thing with all the laws. So I mean you can even come up and argue if you want to, that the Prophet allowed alcohol,

    fornication etc. and not only Mut'a. However, you won't convince any Muslim of what you are saying because we all know that the laws came gradually and that

    certain things ended over time. So go debate your topic with a Shia. Sami is not a Shia, so obviously he sees this as a waste of time. Its like me trying to

    debate you to defend the authority of the Apocrypha.

    Making a whole debate on Mut'a is useless and a waste of time. If Shamoun wishes to bring it up in the Prophethood of Muhammad debate then fine. Its

    not like we are saying that Shamoun cannot bring it up and that we are trying to avoid it. No, Shamoun can bring it up, but that is not the sole topic.

    Look Sami, let Shamoun make a choice. if he wants to then great, if not then let him be. We can't force him. But just make sure that you save Shamoun's refusal just in case he accuses Muslims of being scared to debate him on this topic.

    Peace to All

    Sam Shamoun's response:

    No response.

    Brother Sami's follow-up email:

    From: "sami z" <sami-zaatari@hotmail.com>

    To: b_zawadi@hotmail.com, sam_shmn40@hotmail.com, quransearch_com@yahoo.com, Islam_defender@hotmail.com, just_flow11@hotmail.com, islamttd786@yahoo.com, jk@answering-islam.org

    Subject: RE: Debate: Is Muhammad a True Prophet?

    Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 20:52:40 +0000

    well lets hope he accepts the debate topic WHICH HE MADE how ironic, see guys thats the irony of all this, this is SHAMOUNS TOPIC! and hes on tape

    too saying he wants it, and now all of a sudden he doesnt, no sam im sorry you dont keep making new debate topics as you want, be a man and debate

    the first topic you set up so i can beat you on that too just like i did on my topic on jesus' divinity. so therefore sam must be a man and keep his word

    and debate me on this topic as he said he would and the very topic he set up.

    lets do it, next satuday, 10 pm new york time, format 2 min opening and 4 min back and forth for 2 hours, and this format WAS AGREED BY BOTH OF

    US LAST YEAR FOR BOTH DEBATES it seems you want to keep changing everything now, why? let us stick to the original which even you yourself agreed

    to and let us debate.

    i am all ready guys, shamoun lets see if your talk can stand up you always say muslims fear to debate you on Islam or are running, i am chasing you

    downnnnnnnnnnnn to debate this broad Islamic topic which you brought up, so lets do it so i can make it 2-0 for Islam. :)

    Sam Shamoun's response:

    No response.

    My email:

    From: Osama Abdallah <quransearch_com@yahoo.com

    To: sami z <sami-zaatari@hotmail.com, b_zawadi@hotmail.com,

    sam_shmn40@hotmail.com, Islam_defender@hotmail.com,

    just_flow11@hotmail.com, islamttd786@yahoo.com,

    jk@answering-islam.org

    Subject: RE: Debate: Is Muhammad a True Prophet?

    Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 15:37:14 -0700 (PDT)

    As'salamu Alaikum to all Muslims in this room,

    Dear brother Sami, great job on smashing this missionary-snake and exposing him to be a real demon and satan follower as the rest of his flock, especially his other coward Jochen Jatz wh wouldn't remove the articles that he himself believe are absurd as he admittedly said so:

    http://www.answering-christianity.com/quran/jochen_admitting_to_be_liar.htm

    And yes, stick to debating in a room outside of his, since we have documented COUNTLESS foul insults from him which exposed him to be no more than a street thug. So we don't need to go to his room, as we did last time, to hear more insults.

    It is obvious that this snake is pissing in his pants from you since you schooled him very bad on trinity in your last debate. And it is obvious that his gospel of porn, the book of women's vaginas and breasts taste like "wine" is too embarrassing for him that he wouldn't allow anyone to even bring up the porn in his bible. The reader can visit: www.answering-christianity.com/x_rated.htm.

    Here is why this missionary-snake wouldn't come to your room:

    1-  He won't be able to mute your mic if you bring up the countless contradictions and corruption in his bible.

    2-  He won't be able to mute your mic if you bring up the x-rated pornography in his bible.

    3-  He won't be able to foul-insult anyone.

    4-  He knows that his arguments on their own don't hold water.

    Therefore case closed, and rest assure dear brother Sami that your conversation with this snake along with this reply of mine will be posted on a new article further exposing this coward and his fake scholarship.

    Best regards,

    Osama Abdallah

    Sam Shamoun's response:

    No response.

    Brother Sami's response:

    From: "sami z" <sami-zaatari@hotmail.com> 

    To: quransearch_com@yahoo.com, b_zawadi@hotmail.com, sam_shmn40@hotmail.com, Islam_defender@hotmail.com, just_flow11@hotmail.com, islamttd786@yahoo.com, jk@answering-islam.org

    Subject: RE: Debate: Is Muhammad a True Prophet?

    Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 22:39:45 +0000

    bro make sure you make note that he agreed to debate this topic in our first debate! so he must debate since he made the topic and said he would debate

    it. :) we shall wait maybe he will suprise us and accept to debate his own topic.

    Brother Sami's follow-up email:

    From: "sami z" <sami-zaatari@hotmail.com>

    To: quransearch_com@yahoo.com, b_zawadi@hotmail.com, sam_shmn40@hotmail.com, Islam_defender@hotmail.com, just_flow11@hotmail.com, islamttd786@yahoo.com, jk@answering-islam.org

    Subject: RE: Debate: Is Muhammad a True Prophet?

    Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 21:07:35 +0000

    well i guess shamoun is a coward, he wont debate his own topic and look how quiet he has gone, thanks for showing your true colors sam, your no different than nadir ahmed, both of you are cowards and deep down you know you are a coward because you are even on tape saying this is your debate topic,

    and i am now saying lets do it this saturday and you say no, oh well a coward is a coward, your just all talk and insulting, but when it comes down to business

    you prove your true colors. brothers your all witnesses to this coward :)

    how nice, lets hope shamoun can still prove us wrong by accepting the debate challenge on the topic which he made.

    Sam Shamoun's response:

    No response

     Brother Abdullah Smith's response:

    From: "Abdullah Kareem" <islam_defender@hotmail.com

    To: sami-zaatari@hotmail.com, quransearch_com@yahoo.com,

    b_zawadi@hotmail.com, sam_shmn40@hotmail.com, just_flow11@hotmail.com,

    islamttd786@yahoo.com

    Subject: RE: Debate: Is Muhammad a True Prophet?

    Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 18:44:59 -0400

    There is no hope for sun-god worshipper sam

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Rock_of_Cashel-cross.jpg


    By Truth - 10/30/2013 12:55:29 AM



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